Quote from: billyjoeallen on March 10, 2014, 11:16:10 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 10, 2014, 09:24:08 AM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on March 10, 2014, 03:17:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 10, 2014, 02:50:31 AM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on March 10, 2014, 02:25:42 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 10, 2014, 02:08:45 AM

I understand that it can be difficult to make changes in law or society - especially, the larger the community. Don't get me wrong, I do NOT appreciate having certain rule imposed upon me; however, I try to find ways in which I can accept and live in harmony without proclaiming that the government is some alien entity that is separated from my human interests. Personally, if I were to pick one thing that irritates me the most about government is NOT the concept of taxes, but instead it is the fact that money has too much influenced government and those with a lot of money are NOT paying their fair share of taxes. Accordingly, regular people have to pay more taxes b/c of the money corruption that has infiltrated into the most recent government(s)... worse in the past 20 years or so.

I don't agree to disagree when the issue at hand is whether or not I am a slave. This isn't hyperbole. I can't leave the country without permission and even if I am allowed to leave, I still must file U.S. tax returns for ten years. I can't vote to change the system. There is no option on the ballot to leave the elected posts empty for the next term. Democracy is not consent of the governed anyway; it is consent of the majority or more accurately the plurality.

Slavery won't go away because it is immoral. It will go away because it is economically obsolete. There's just not much profit in it anymore and it is becoming less profitable by the day.

I am sad that you live in a state of mind that you feel that you are being forced. Yes, I agree with the government in A LOT of ways; however, mentally, I recognize the fact that I live in a community of people. The world is NOT just about me, and in this community of people, a variety of compromises have been made. Some of the compromises are pure bullshit... Well, maybe a lot of them are pure bullshit that are in place to oppress people. I recognize the law as a weapon of the rich to oppress the poor - however, it seems that my mentality is different from yours b/c I am NOT going to expend all of my energies bitching and moaning about how unfair it is and suggesting that the only solution is to throw out the baby and the bathwater by some kind of ousting of government. That is too outrageous b/c there are a lot of people in the community, besides me.

Personally, I believe that if there were ways to remove money influence in politics, and we were able to elect people to serve the interests of the people as a whole, rather than the rich, then we would move a long way towards a better society.

If you and I sat down for a beer, I am sure that there would be a lot that we would agree upon, but I am NOT going to agree that the starting place is to shut down government (tomorrow or next week). Change needs to be more incremental and focused, if such change is going to be meaningful and a product of society rather than a product of the will of only a few.

How can you possibly infer that opposition to monopoly governance equates to opposition to community? That's the most baffling non sequitur I can imagine. If you think rule of law is essential (and it is) then you cannot let the law be subverted by allowing one entity only to interpret and enforce that law, because then you effectively have rule of man and not rule of law. Of course politicians are going to be bribed and the wealthy are going to bend the State to their will. They have the incentive to do so. No reform is possible with the existing incentive structure in place. I'm not advocating an armed insurrection. That would be futile. I am advocating participation in the system to the least amount possible until in crumbles under its own weight.

I still ponder over whether we made any progress in our conversation regarding this topic. I remain of the position that it is my belief that government serves way to many roles to either discontinue it or to completely ignore it. If you do NOT participate in government, then others will, and the others who are participating are going to have more power and leeway b/c you are NOT participating. I do NOT see that as a solution that will cause some ultimate pie in the sky collapse... as you are suggesting. I also find it very unproductive for people to be spouting off that government is NO good without offering solutions. I seem to be repeating myself.. in regard to saying that I cannot see it productive to just say get rid of all government.. makes little to NO sense to me.

We're not making progress because you are not listening. The solution to the problem of monopoly governance is distributed governance. Businesses can compete to provide traditionally state-provided services the same way they compete to provide any other kind of services. Public goods can be provided through assurance contracts. And the collapse is coming whether you can see it or not. You don't have to agree with my ideology. All you need is basic math skills. The Federal Reserve and many other central banks are near the zero bound already. With no capital formation it's only a matter of time.

I am attacking your ideas and NOT you personally. YOU may be a nice guy, and we may get along to have a beer; however, your most recent post is bullshit - especially the first sentence. YOU cannot just keep repeating the same concept using different words, and then accuse me of NOT listening or NOT understanding your brilliance. Can you be a little more respectful to the opinions of others? YOU do NOT have any crystal ball regarding the future regarding the role of government that is any better than my ideas - just b/c they seem to vary somewhat. You are being patronizing engaging in a form of personal attack and acting as if I do NOT know anything about what I am saying, merely b/c my views vary from yours.

Yes, I agree there are a lot of irresponsible behaviors of current governments (especially this printing of money and giving the money to rich people without any accountability to cause them to loan the money or give the money to the people), but governments are also very resilient and they have many supporters and blood suckers that are NOT going to let them fail any time soon....

When do you expect this supposed governmental collapse? In the lifetime of anyone reading this thread? within 70 years? I probably only have 30-40 more years left in me, at best, if I'm lucky.

YOU are talking pie in the sky, if you think that you have a vision and a prediction about the downfall of government that is more sound and more realistic than anyone else's b/c your prediction is based on some kind of mathematics (that certainly cannot fail to prove correct, yeah right).