Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on January 28, 2021, 12:48:33 PM

Testnet bitcoins have no value, despite the fact that they're too expensive to mine. Since they don't have value and there is no profit from mining, what's the miner's incentive?

miner8VH6WPrsQ1Fxqb7MPgJEoFYX2RCkS right now has 1,654,132 TBTC. If we assume that they have no value, then they don't. But, since people want testnet bitcoins, why don't they have value? I don't get this. Isn't this a free market? Isn't there a demand and a supply for testnet bitcoins?

I'm going to necro post the fuck out of this thing because I too realized this late in 2022, and decided to let my free market determine if they have value or not.

Thus far, there is always someone in line to buy them on the bid.

https://altquick.com/exchange/market/BitcoinTestnet3

https://altquick.com/exchange/market/BitcoinTestnet4

Also, part of the propaganda of v4 launching was that people "ran out" of v3. This guy still has a million v3 coins in the OP link!!!!!!!! My faucet still has plenty of v3 too. Plenty of other Bitcoin contributors have thousands. *shrugs*. I think it is more likely that the attack someone did on Bitcoin Testnet to purposely dry up the block reward was the main factor in reality... regardless, it seems to have made Testnet 3 even more valuable for some strange reason.

Having a small amount of value will hopefully shake those types of people loose of their coins. Although there is a miner in v4 with >900,000 TBTC and counting... they are absolutely rekting the 20 min reset rule. Sadly, having a small value that is easy to get to will also bring a few scammers too... probably mostly faucet owners selling their coins. Some dude got caught with a giveaway thread here that turned into a "Dump for BTC on BAC's website" lol ops Tongue

happens. (that's why I created my own faucet years ago and still today, I got sick of getting robbed by "feel good" fundraising fuck faces.)

Testnet will likely switch to full POW early next year. This is good for multiple reasons, but being more similar to Mainnet and allowing testnet to test IRL POW will be a good thing for a lot of people/companies. I expect it will help hashing power on the Mainnet.

Look at the Bitcoin Core mailing list... it's a frequent subject right now, and a few prominent Bitcoin Contributors have proposed some wild stuff (premining testnet with the goal of selling them, and then making a new one. This proposal came from Greg Maxwell!!!! LuL)

The ideology around Testnet should be that they have a small amount of value or whatever benefits Bitcoin and helps keep Testnet strong. This keeps the Testnet network aggressive... really aggressive it seems. Tongue

Which is good, or you'll have broken shit running with no reason to attack it or fix it (like v3 until it was attacked and "fixed").

Testnet should be a warzone.

Most exchanges (all atm besides my dumb ass) are way to scared of Testnet for lots of reasons... you get a LOT of not great exposer to smart people, who then feel like they have the right to fuck you or try.

Quote from: gmaxwell on May 08, 2025, 01:25:20 AM

BayAreaCoins you seem to have the idea that bitcoin developers are a free shitcoin development business for you. They are not. Testnet is for testing, v4 was created because v3 got traded for money, v3 got created (and was left intentionally defective) because v2 got traded for money, etc. If third party usage of testnet gets in the way of the uses its authors created it for, they will continue to just switch to different rules at their own convenience. You just don't get any say in the subject, it's not up for debate, and you've certainly been well informed of this all along by many people. For testnet there isn't even a sense that the system was created for the benefit of others, it's not, it's just a test, and it is intended to have no more value than monopoly money. Of course, you're free to make whatever shitcoins you want including derivatives of the Bitcoin software-- the bitcoin devs are kind enough to give away the software they've written under terms that allow you to do so, something under which they are under absolutely no obligation to do so, and might be wise to reconsider if they're not treated with professionalism and kindness.

Likewise, there was nothing about my suggestion actually "paying devs". The reason testnet should probably be massively premined is to assure developers always have ready access to coins and to completely undermine the economics of any attempt to invest in it speculatively because that usage has consistently gotten in the way of using it for testing -- in other words to assure that it remains worthless as it is and has always been intended by its creators. If the idea I suggest works there is never any value, if it fails at least the trouble of switching to the next version might be compensated from the profits of dumping premined coins on the market. Win Win. Your aggressively negative response is probably the best evidence that the proposal would be effective and that prior proposals would not that anyone could possibly have wanted. --- not that anyone specifically has the goal of pissing you off, but you've been insistent on creating and driving usage that is at odds with the creators intention for testnet and changes that make it less useful for your purposes make it more useful for the authors purposes. Bitcoin developers have hosted a lawn party, you built a sand castle on the bank of their wave pool, under a "no sand castles here" sign-- it literally says "test" in the name--, you don't get to throw a fit when they turn the waves on. Cheesy

Nothing in Bitcoin ANYTHING should be "left intentionally defective"... that blows my fucking mind tbh.

Greg was literally the 10th person(?) ever to have commit access to the Bitcoin Github and intentionally left something fucked up! Gawd damn.

At the very least, what I've done with Testnet is an interesting experiment when Bitcoin Core devs may go rogue against you and do a 180 against "free markets". It's kinda fun tbh.