Quote from: bassclef on March 10, 2014, 08:02:45 PM

Quote from: octaft on March 10, 2014, 07:42:50 PM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on March 10, 2014, 07:26:23 PM

If you claim the a monopoly government is necessary to prevent the predation of the disadvantaged by the powerful, then I ask, howz that workin out for you so far?

Here's a question: let's say you could, for the rest of your life, commit 30% of your income and savings to charitable organizations of your choice, with a certain amount required to go to basic needs charities, in exchange for never paying taxes on anything ever again. Would you say yes? If that's too much, what's the maximum you'd go up to?

When I see discussions about small government, especially with Europeans defending socialism, keep in mind the US was designed to have decentralized state governments by its founders. If you don't like the rules in one state, drive to another one. To most libertarians, this is acceptable. So calling them anti-government is a gross misunderstanding. State and Federal governments here often butt heads, and often states win out.

Illinois, for example, resembles a socialist country in decline. It has many social safety nets, huge union influence, huge unsustainable debt, high unemployment and a super corrupt, scandalous government. Fortunately it's not difficult to move somewhere like Oregon, with low income tax and zero sales tax. After the auto industry bailout by the Feds (which didn't work, btw), Michigan has largely taken a hands-off approach with the decline of Detroit. As much of a hellhole/ghost town the metropolitan area is, the suburbs are still doing well. The corruption and collapse is working itself out and investors are buying up cheap cheap real estate. My friends rent a huge, amazing house there for a few hundred dollars a month. The neighborhood looks like a demilitarized zone but it's not unsafe because there's nobody there.

How lovely the world must look like to the stubbornly naive...

Can't believe I'm turning into the statist here, considering that in he outside world I tend to take the opposite role, but so much simplification and ideologically motivated misrepresentations of reality have that effect.

Hey, I know what I'll do: I'll just warm up my earlier point: how come those pretty "socialist" states like Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands outperform (on pretty much every metric) more economically permissive countries like the US?