Quote from: bodogb on Today at 07:40:23 PM

There is a huge flaw in your theory. The token you mention, M2 and Turtlenetwork as a whole does not have an active market, there is no liquidity. If you buy up the tokens using investor funds that would drive up their price and the theoretical market cap due to the paper thin order books, but at the end of the day there would be no one to sell to at those inflated prices. The price would collapse instantly as soon as you try to sell those accumulated tokens for a profit, since no one was there to buy them at $0.01 a piece, so why would anyone do it as $1? You were buying them, there is still no market. You can't just jump-start a token like this, it doesn't magically grant value to it. It's a zero sum game, to be able to pull out 10x profit, there has to be a buyer market willing to pay that price. Now where does that come from? Pure speculation, investor greed? Good luck with that. We are way past due that phase when any random token could get investors, just because it has a cool name or something. Just look at the shitloads of worthless tokens on the Waves network, or any other place which gives easy to use tools to an average Joe. None of them are worth anything, and rightfully so.
Utility + added work/value = increased price. And many times even that is not enough to gain traction, there are still a lot of risks.

Turtlenetwork as it is looks like an exact copy/paste of Waves, without the know-how, without the developers and the partnerships built over years. I see zero added value there. You can of course speculate on the price, turn some profit on it, but its going to be a dead project without original ideas, which could easily mean that instead of turning 2-5-10x profit you will simply lose whatever you invest, or at least a large chunk of it.

I'm not familiar with M2 - so what brings value to that? What the project about, whats the utility?

It is too early to dismiss TurtleNetwork but I dont disagree with your observation.

TurtleNetwork generates 700 waves every month from BlackTurtlenode which is a top 10 leasing node on waves and only the big USDN pools are ranked higher. On x30 annualized p/e, market cap should be x10 over present $400 000.

I don't know how devs use funds or if anything goes back into company because it is not audited. I know that they were running at a loss when waves was $3 and that atleast some, perhaps a significant share of funds are used for server cost and related business operations.

Founder controls 10m TN as was disclosed a few days ago so there is performance incentive. Technically he can sustain price between 0.0005-0.001 using those 700 monthly waves and begin buying into 0.024 after hoarding a few more million from ICO sellers which I estimate own about 10m which they are stealth selling above $0.007 but deny doing so. Blockchain is completely transparent so it is easy to see who is doing what in the explorer. say 15m founder funds at 0.024 it's $4m on paper when waves $11, really nice.

There are still buyers at this level contrary to what you might think. Buying power in general is low, user growth is low and I don't understand how the leasing pool can be so big while user cross over between Waves and TN is almost nothing. Discoverbility rate should be higher but this is new tech so learning curve is steep for everyone. It took me many years to understand crypto but it is very similar to stock trading on the surface.

I only discovered TN by coincidence in July had no clue it was this well developed, everyting you can do on waves you can do on TN but the big difference is that network participation costs 1/2000th compared to waves ($400k vs $1bn market cap).

It was already mentioned but node power is 40% of waves and userbase is 1/10th so p/e revenue valuation method and fundamentals signal that price is trading below target zone 0.004.

I would not be surprised if at some point in the future, TN trades at 1/20th of waves market cap. It only takes 1 or 2 triggers in this advanced bull market. The main problem is lack of visibility which is surprising because it is ranked 1600 on cmc with 700 watchlist accounts.

I knew about TurtleNetwork but had never researched it before even after 2 years business activity on waves. So if I who work everyday on waves did not know about TN, 99% of the other users will likely not care or know about it either. Maybe the branding is the problem.

Most waves users dismiss other tokens like you also do because there is large volume of unchecked spam tokens without use case, and TN voting is stuck at 2 stars on wct tokenrating because WCT does not work for voting since last year. Marquise $Museum is ranked 2/30 000 tokens on waves.

TurtleNetwork by itself may or may not be the most brilliant investment in history but I will add that the first two months after my 1.1m investment it did perform better than waves did in the past 2 years which caused over reliance on TN without realizing that there are structural problems and overlooking the importance of DEFI integration which is the cause of this massive bull rally since last year.

Devs are technically skilled but user growth simply is not there as it needs to be this deep into bull market. If it does survive, perhaps in 4 to 6 years it will be a part of the next rally but for now, consider it lost money. If I did not invest some profit from august rally into TN, I am sure everything would be spent together with the $8000 that was withdrawn last year between $3-$7.5 waves. The goal was always to exit main investment when waves hit $7.4 and there is a different strategy between $10-$400 with smaller stack inorder to shield what should have been $70k in profit but is zero because of a chain of ridiculously bad luck that never seem to stop and started actually back in march 2019. People will be depressed reading about it so I will spare everyone, but a few days ago I was actually suicidal so I had to do something about this curse, and the solution was to alteast control one part of this bad luck which is the stolen $40k from last summer.

It was very hard on me personally because I waited 2 years for waves after consistently predicting this parabolic price performance and spending alot of time and money here. But this loss of $70k is not becuse of poor TN performance it is mainly because of critical bad luck with ridiculously bad timing so bad that it cannot be random. and fomo etc, victim of crimes both on and off blockchain. There is also personal responsibility for lack of discipline/futures trading experience and spending too much money on gypsy ghetto kids. However I really did not think Binance was actually a criminal organization, but it is. So called selective scamming.

I sold Ethereum in december 2016 at $10 after buying at $7, 9 months earlier. Everyone of course remember what happened a few months later in 2017...This is my life for the past 16 years when it comes to investments so I quit in 2009 after the financial crisis and a few months later the market went into 10 year bull mode, longest bull market in history. Atleast I did find some remaining ETH on Bittrex a year later so it was a welcome surprise.

If you want to know about M2 there is info on website. I have written extensively on the subject on this account and another Marquise Museum account.

There will be M2 liquidity for investor to sell at x10 000 paper profit as both waves and TN generates weekly dividends on leased capital so I would control this sizeable stack and use weekly dividend as buyback liquidity. I only need 1 whale to implement this strategy. Retail customers will be onramped separately using other marketing and expansion methods but the core profitability such as x60 overnight on $1m does not need anyone else except main investor, M2 project and waves or TN, preferably both in combination due to synergies and risk mitigation.

Anyone who puts $1m in waves or TN without heding might aswell go to casino. From this $1m I would allocate $20-$50k each in waves and TN and then assess how much more is needed to control TN market and raise cap from 0.0005 to 0.024-0.1 which in itself will generate vast paper profit.

For waves, the $20-$50 is to hedge parabolic continuation towards $400 but it can easily drop to 15 cents and that is why M2 hedge is a critical advancement compared to stand alone crypto investing.

Because M2 is convertible into hard assets which are demonstrted on website and recently entered commercialization after 4 years development.

Majority of this $1m seed funding will not be used as the normal investor would use it. Most of it will be used for partnerships on and off blockchain, and importantly nearly all of it will be reserved for asset production. In case of crypto implosion, investor gets his money back in as M2 assets which are designed for generational value increase similarly to Andy Warhols x15 000 35 year gain 1960 > 1995.

I could probably generate overnight x300 on $200k with $800k in reserves, instead of x60 on $1m. It depends on what partnerships can be sealed and how M2 behaves with higher market visibility, it depends on waves and TN performance and level of selling pressure in TN.

As far the this speculative 35 year x15 000 on the M1 asset portfolio, it is something that should not be expected but I would advice the investor to save minimum 10% of M2 collateral and convert it into asset because who knows.