Quote from: bcmine on March 13, 2014, 03:00:05 AM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 13, 2014, 02:08:58 AM

Quote from: Syke on March 13, 2014, 01:57:01 AM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 13, 2014, 01:50:56 AM

Still, this does not change the fact that Innosilicon does not have the rights to produce and distribute the A1 chips without bitmine's permission.

Doubtful. Innosilicon was the one who actually engineered the chip.

Engineering contracted and paid for by bitmine.

---

Quote from: silver71 on March 08, 2014, 05:56:23 PM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 08, 2014, 05:01:32 PM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 08, 2014, 04:16:27 PM

Your miner is not from us and it is not the same as JTminer. Basically, the JTminer with smaller size is much stable and can do overclock. Please ask the suggestion from who you bought it if you want to do overclock. We are not responsible for what is not from us. Thanks.

Recent summary:
Advantage and difference from other miner:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260

---------------------------------------------
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.

for @QuestionTime : We reserve our right to take legal action for your libel!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060

Quote from: bobsag3 on March 08, 2014, 03:46:37 PM

Quote from: skyfromwell on March 08, 2014, 06:31:26 AM

Quote from: bobsag3 on March 08, 2014, 02:40:33 AM

Quote from: skyfromwell on March 08, 2014, 02:24:10 AM

Quote from: JointDoctor on March 08, 2014, 02:19:38 AM

Quote from: skyfromwell on March 08, 2014, 02:16:14 AM

Quote from: JointDoctor on March 08, 2014, 01:57:06 AM

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on [Suspicious link removed]eeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official

How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

I will let someone put more pictures here.

I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.

Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011

Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL.

Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there.

Please stop telling me what I do or dont have. These are not knockoffs- I have been running them OC for weeks now, and they also look identical to all the other units me and my assosiates purchased. Same design, PCBs chips, etc as the legitimate ones. Oh, and and the PCBs + parts numbers match up with the ones your selling directly.

JT, it seems like a Chinese manufacturer has ripped off your designs and is selling them as their own. Wait.. where have I seen that before Grin

Libel? It sounds like you have a statement from Innosillicon contradicting bitmine's claims. Please do share.

What is actually Innosilicon's current position on this matter is this, and I quote from their web :
"Innosilicon Announce its 28nm Bitcoin Mining IP core in Production
Innosilicon is proudly announcing that BitMine AG, a leading bitcoin mining system supplier, has licensed its ultra low power Hash IP Core for production at GF 28nm HPP process. This IP is designed from scratch using patent pending, customized VLSI computational Marco cells developed to squeeze the best possible power efficiency in 28nm. Its ultra high power efficiency and thermal reliability allows BitMine AG to pack just the right amount of innovative hash horse power inside a A1 CoinCraft ASIC. The availability of this 28nm hardened IP core instantly raised the bar in a crowded 28nm bitcoin mining ASIC field."

This might mean, that :

a) Bitmine.ch has patented (patent pending), their HPP proces (sublicenced from GF and forked), based on their Bitcoin Mining IP core
b) Innosilicon has given permission to Bitmine.ch to use their ultra-low-power Hash IP core for 28 nm DIE for chips produced by Innosilicon for Bitmine, and probably given only to Bitmine and nobody else.
c) Who did customized VLSI computational Marco cell (power train in 28 nm) - Synapse, Verisilicon, Innosilicon, Bitmine or GlobalFoundries is not known to me at this point. Also not known if this customized VLSI method is patented by someone.

Even though somebody could obtain licence from Innosilicon for power layer, other layers are still not Innosilicon property, so without Bitmine's sublicence on final design, full tapeout of cloned chips is not [legally] possible.

It has nothing to do with BRANDNAME - "COINCRAFT A1" as s BRAND, but with TOPOGRAPHIC DESIGN OF INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, which is SEPARATE LEVEL OF INTELECTUAL PROPERTY PROTECTION FROM BRAND(NAME) PROTECTION, patent pending according to Madrid Convention of the World Intelectual property organisation. Patents are accesible from WIPO portal, and they are many, and non of which are the property JingTian.

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 08, 2014, 03:40:26 AM

Quote from: giorgiomassa on March 04, 2014, 10:19:37 AM

Quote from: QuestionTime on March 03, 2014, 12:24:20 AM

Quote from: seeksilence on March 02, 2014, 06:23:02 PM

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Quote

Designed from scratch, Bitmines Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

Authorised distributors of bitmine tech: http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204 - unless the chips were sourced from one of these guys or bitmine themselves it's corporate theft.

Bitmine have already made themselves quite clear on the issue and until they've made a statement retracting the previous statement it's much more likely the the statement was deleted/moderated rather than retracted. Furthermore, we have yet to hear anything from Innosilicon to suggest that they have obtained the rights from bitmine to produce these chips for sale.

Certainly it's plausible Innosillion also have the rights to sell the chip, but it is also certainly plausible Innosilicon does not have the rights to sell the chip. In the absence of an official statement from Innosilicon contradicting the official statement from bitmine and the presence of the well known culture of rampant IP theft that goes on in China, on the balance of probabilities, it is much more likely the Chinese machines using 28nm A1 chips from Innosilicon are the product of stolen property and therefore illegal to receive and/or possess in most common law jurisdictions.

Customers have the right to purchase goods that are 100% legitimately manufactured. I would not want to buy a car that has been assembled from stolen parts.

Exacly thats the point. I have seen contracts which are giving to both parties (producer and developer) the same rights. Thats good for both, because the developer thinks, the producer will do alot of affort to go on a fast and good production level and the producer will do alot of affort, because he can sell the chips by himself. Also the developer of the chip can negotiate lower costs. Then all of this is contracted with licenses and exclusiv licensing of territories. The most probably situation is (speculation) that innosilicon and all distributers of the chips in machines is forbidden to export the good to Europe and USA (exclusiv licenses) but not in Asia. So if you buy a Miner a keep it running in Europe/USA than it could be illigal (speculation). I guess, we will see high technology products from bitmine.ch as from Jin Tian. Both are doing excellent work. I see Bitmines, Innosilicon is very good on ASIC design, Jin Tian very much more as just competitive on PCBs. Congratulation to both parties.

When we dont see the contracts we cant know who is right, neither innosilicon nor bitminie. Certainly plausible, as what we see, is that innosilicon is in right (he thinks he is) and bitmine changed his cooperation partner, what make possible that they are angry, but maybe its because innosilicon technology level is limited. They want to work with Intel next, which is having a brand new Asics 14nm fab. Giorgiomassa, can you give us a copy of your contract with innosilicon, so we can review the point here?

As I know, there are three markets -- North America, Europe and China.

Bitmine cannot sell in China, but I can sell in all areas.