Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 13, 2014, 07:22:19 AM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on March 13, 2014, 07:06:24 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 13, 2014, 06:54:02 AM

You have too many presumptions in your descriptions of events... and you are talking gobbledy gook. First you praise and generalize about capitalists and then you suggest that the solution is to take away regulation. That is all bullshit. The problems that we have been having in recent times can be attributed too much liberty being given to capitalists and labor and government has been either too weak or too chickenshit to challenge the exploitation being carried out by capitalist. Look at the situation created as recently as since 2008 whereby jobs have been removed to bust unions and to make people unemployed and to reintroduce jobs at fractions of the previous rates. It was already bad before 2008, but got worse b/c capitalists (especially the filthy rich ones - NOT talking about the mom and pop capitalists, here) were given too much freedom and NOT taxed and allowed to remove jobs and capital and NOT to reinvest.

What planet are you living on? GM almost went out of business because the United auto-workers drove up input costs to the point that they could make no profits. Not small profits. NO PROFITS. Hummer and Oldsmobile had to be shut down because they just couldn't compete. Detroit is now a third world hellhole. Nonunion car factories are springing all over the south and the grandsons of the southerners who migrated to Detroit are migrating back. You are not doing the laborers of the world any favors by driving their employers out of business. This has played out the same way in every heavily unionized industry on earth except for government workers.

I can guess what your solution will be: force every car maker to unionize. So then cars are too expensive to drive, workers get laid off anyway and we all have to ride the fucking bus to work, if we are lucky enough to have jobs at all. Can you even try to see yourself from our perspective? You appear crazy.

First of all, it sounds as if you may have been watching too much Fox news, and you have a very narrow view of the situation (including the auto industry) which causes you to resort to personal attacks, and trying to attempt to assert that you have some kind of superior view of what is going on and that you are part of some enlightened group...

Unions are NOT to blame for these supposed troubles that you attempt to describe. For example, Germany is highly unionized, but they did NOT suffer the same troubles as the US in 2008 ish and thereafter, in part b/c of the unionization in Germany had input into the direction of the companies in germany and did NOT allow capitalists to vulturize companies to reduce jobs and wages and to paint some kind of fantasy land scenario that you describe.... about competition and that non-union is best and that we gotta be exploited in order to compete.. BS....

YES we already know your solution for nearly everything seems to be to get rid of government and to blame people, in spite of the fact that the wealthy have been extracting wealth from the people and NOT paying taxes and debilitating government in various ways.... which causes regular and poor people to have to bear more of the burden of what the rich should be contributing. And the politicians have been going along with all of this redistribution of wealth towards the rich... both parties have been going along with it... b/c there is too much money influencing politics and reducing the facilitation of democratic input.

Quote from: Shak on March 13, 2014, 07:20:57 AM

nah, now you are just plappering the stuff the lobbyists want you to think. gm and co failed because they didn't adapt to the changing market, not because labor was too expensive. in fact, if they pay their workers a good loan, they will buy new cars instead of used ones and will buy them more often instead of driving them until they are worth only the scrap-metal price.

look at countries with real worker unions, eg. germany. didn't got the notion that they are completely inable to deal on an international scale and compete in both, prices and quality.

EXACTLY.....

Detroit car designs suck because all the smart engineers moved to Silicone Valley. German engineers didn't have that option. I wouldn't use Germany as a shining example of a worker's paradise if I were you. It's a place where they work year round to bail out Greeks and Italians who take summers off. They gave loans to other countries so that they could buy German cars and other products and now those countries are defaulting. That's not a good business model.

Their is no practical way to stop money from influencing politics. It has never been done anywhere, ever. We can only stop the influence OF politics. Capital is mobile and the rich will always flee to places where their property rights are protected. They don't like being slaves anymore than you do, and they have better options. Communism used to cover almost half the globe and now it's a backwater. This war has been fought and you lost. You never had a chance.