Quote from: log0s on October 11, 2011, 02:58:24 PM

Quote from: proudhon on October 11, 2011, 02:50:16 PM

Quote from: log0s on October 11, 2011, 02:36:07 PM

Quote from: zby on October 11, 2011, 01:57:33 PM

The use value of gold is just a little fraction of it's exchange value - so why people buy it? Because they expect someone else to buy it back from them.

Indirect exchange is only one of multiple reasons people buy gold. There are many directly serviceable uses of gold and at least one of those reasons (ornamentation) were why people wanted to acquire gold before it was ever used for indirect exchange.

There has only ever been one reason to buy bitcoins. It is circular in that the only reason anyone buys them is to sell them to another buyer, who is only buying them to sell them to another buyer, etc., etc. No one buys them to provide some direct service because they do not provide a direct service. They are just a number in the "value" field of a bitcoin transaction.

Although I acknowledge that it is not 100% certain to collapse, I believe it's chances of success are very poor, especially when considering all of the misconceptions bitcoin users have about the system they are using. This is why I say bitcoin prices do not reflect reality (this is the case with all bubbles), but rather reflects false beliefs that promote higher prices, and therefore is a bubble that is not done deflating.

I'm trying to introspect here and as I reflect on my own intentions I can't find any other reason that I buy dollars with my labor than to sell them to another buyer. What am I missing? If that's a criticism of bitcoins, surely it's also a criticism of dollars.

Dollars had the advantage that they were already a very widely accepted money before their commodity backing was removed. Bitcoin is not a commodity and has no commodity backing to help in it's adoption.

I don't see how that's relevant to reasons people buy dollars and sell them to other buyers. Not once, for example, have I ever bought dollars with my labor with the reason in mind that dollars have the advantage that they were already very widely accepted money before their commodity backing was removed. As I said, the only reason I've ever had in mind, so far as I can tell, is that I can sell them to another buyer.

You made the claim that that's the only reason people buy bitcoins. I'm suggesting that for the vast majority of the world's population that's also the only reason they buy most other currencies. So, if the claim that the only reason most people buy bitcoins is to sell them to other buyers is a criticism of bitcoin, then, if a similar situation obtains for dollars it should count against dollars in the same way. It seems that the only reason most people buy dollars is to sell them to other buyers. I'm certain this is true for me. I'm just a sure it's true for my wife, and I'm quite confident no other reasons (e.g. that dollars had the advantage that they were already a very widely accepted money before their commodity backing was removed) enter into the minds of any of my friends. Can anyone else speak to this? Facts about the history of dollars may make dollars more stable compared to bitcoins, but what I'm saying is that those facts don't enter into the minds of most people as reasons they buy dollars. What is in the minds of most people, I suggest, is that they can sell those dollars to other buyers.