Quote from: TangentC on May 06, 2021, 05:31:40 PM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 06, 2021, 07:18:04 AM

Demerited by BlackHatCoiner (2)

There are just so many things I disagree with this message, that I'll have to demerit it. Lips sealed

Thanks for the Demerits, I shall Cherish them. Cheesy

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 06, 2021, 07:18:04 AM

Quote from: TangentC on May 04, 2021, 04:15:34 PM

1. LN is overly Complicated.

Your opinion? That's clearly something personal. It surely is complicated for someone who doesn't know how to use Bitcoin, but someone who does? I'd rather say that he/she just lacks interest in it to say that.

Bitcoin is easy to use , for even the moderate PC person.
LN is the stuff , where you have to be a super nerd to even mess with.
This is not the majority of people.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 06, 2021, 07:18:04 AM

Quote from: TangentC on May 04, 2021, 04:15:34 PM

2. Losing your Bitcoins when LN is a real possibility if you don't follow the overly complicated rules of LN.

Once you open a channel you're locking your funds on a multi-sig address that requires both signatures to spend from. Every time you transact off-chain, you sign your final balance and you're free to broadcast it whether your node wants it or not. So, how can you lose money if you "don't follow the overly complicated rules"?

https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/91211/how-can-someone-lose-funds-in-lightning-network
You lose your partner's revocation keys:
You lose the commitment transactions:
Losing funds from going offline

Random Bugs, not sure if the one below has been fixed yet.
https://bitcoinerx.com/bitcoin/90-of-bitcoins-on-the-lightning-network-could-be-lost-to-attackers-following-current-lightening-implementation-research-says/

Nothing a Super Nerd would worry over, but more than the rest of us will waste time with,

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 06, 2021, 07:18:04 AM

Quote from: TangentC on May 04, 2021, 04:15:34 PM

3. Using an EXchange offchain transactions is cheaper and easier than LN.

But you don't have bitcoins. Your exchange keeps the keys, so they own them.

So, I only leave the amount on the exchange, that I plan on spending.
No one should ever keep all of their eggs in 1 basket.
However if the exchange was reputable , and they lose my coins, I can sue them for damages.
So I can get something back.

If I lose my Funds in LN for any of the reasons mentioned earlier,
who do I sue, No one, it is just gone as a sacrifice to the crypto deity.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 06, 2021, 07:18:04 AM

Quote from: TangentC on May 04, 2021, 04:15:34 PM

4. Altcoins like Doge do what Bitcoin used to do, except faster and cheaper.

You do get that the block confirmation time of dogecoin has its downsides, don't you? If the block generation happens that fast, it makes decentralization harder to achieve.

I get most bitcoiners believe that,
but to me it is a line of BS.

Artificially limiting BTC onchain network , so that I can claim 12 year old kids are running full nodes and keeping the network less centralized is just plain wrong.
No matter 1 or 1 billion non-mining full nodes, it has zero effect on decentralization, because all they do is relay, they don't validate ,
so this virtue is pure imagination on the part of bitcoiners, kind of you have to believe it to join the bitcoiner cult.
This one confusion of the english language causes so many bitcoiners to repeat the decentralization myth.
Validation only occurs , when a transaction is added to a new block , only mining nodes can add new blocks , so only they validate.
Non-mining nodes, can't add new blocks all they can do is relay blocks, which is why 1 non-mining node is as good as a billion, since all they do is relay blocks.
If this makes no sense to you, no worries just means you are a loyal bitcoiner that does not question blockstream. Wink

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 06, 2021, 07:18:04 AM

Quote from: TangentC on May 04, 2021, 04:15:34 PM

LN is no real solution, the altcoins such as Doge, have more onchain transaction capacity ,
so in the end they are better for actually using as digital money.

Lightning Network is a solution. It is very practical to transact off-chain for small micro-payments instead of broadcasting them all one-by-one in the block chain. Can you please understand that once you broadcast a transaction it gets saved on hundreds of thousands of computers world wide? You can't really believe that broadcasting a transaction every time you want a coffee is a solution, because this isn't VISA. This is the Bitcoin network and decentralization costs. The Lightning Network is the closest thing we have to accomplish the scaling issue.

I get you think LN is the solution.
Personally , I don't.

The only way it becomes a solution , is if you pay a bank to credit you with capital on their LN channels, and when finished they let you cash out in fiat. Notice at no point , do you actually buy or sell bitcoin in the above scenario. That is the only way you avoid the overly high transaction fees to open and close LN channels. But theses are just my opinions. In time, all will be apparent.

FYI:
https://coingeek.com/lightning-strikes-out/

Quote

Hebrew University professors have disclosed another attack on Lightning Network,
but that is far from the first problem that BTC’s alleged “scaling solution,” has experienced this year.
Five years after the network launched, Lightning Network is still in a perpetual beta phase wrought with bugs, CVEs and frequent zero-day attacks that Bitcoin was created to solve in 2008.
But they persist on the network designed to steal Bitcoin transactions, process them for free by avoiding proof of work,
and the engineers claim Lightning solves Bitcoin’s supposed short-comings by (wait for it…) adding exponential complexity on a separate ledger.

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