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Quote from: Nhazwrath on Today at 04:13:21 AM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

Quote from: Nhazwrath on Today at 04:13:21 AM

drop a bitcoin wallet address.

i will send you 10 bucks in bitcoin. Money where my mouth is. note. it tends to move around since markets havnt yet come in to large scale agreement of what bitcoin is worth.

Once you have that 10 bucks. go buy a coffee with it and then tell me its not money.

=>

If a coffee shop give me coffee because I told them via Bitcoin software that quantity is money that doesn't make my statement true. Money is not quantity, but a thing measured with quantity. I could just as well go to a coffee shop, order a coffee and pay it by writing number 1 on a peace of paper. This won't make number "1" money, but coffee owner stupid. Number is an abstraction, it holds no value and it is impossible to compare it to the value of the coffee to find out whether the "exchange" is beneficial or not. So exchanging coffee or anything for numbers is stupid. You exchange them for things, existing things - other goods, debt (fiat money), services or labor. And you use numbers only to express the quantity of these existent things.

Your argument is so funny ...

So it is more valid if a government prints a number on a piece of paper and tells you what the value of that piece of paper is, because they determine that by printing more or less of that toilet paper money?

What happens if a software developer creates a software program or a application for your mobile phone? (Example : Apple Pay / debit/credit cards / Internet Banking / NFC payments / IMPS, NEFT, RTGS, IMPS) .....all of these use digital "numbers" reflected of a centralized database to transfer value.)

You are such a Fiat sheep.... Grin

....The world of payment systems and currencies are changing and people like you are clinging to the past. Grin

You are holding onto a "Titanic" that are sinking... and you are still singing and dancing and ignoring the tragedy that are happening with government controlled currencies. Grin

The government prints numbers on a peace of paper to measure debt. So I am not exchanging things for numbers but for debt ownership. I explained in the OP how this debt gets paid by the borrowers. In the past there was ownership of gold measured with numbers. Today it is the ownership of debt. Gold and debt exist. Debt is protected via collateral. That's why you need to whole banking system - the middleman, who will ensure the debt that you own gets paid. Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist and all you have is numbers. Numbers that express the ownership of nothing. That's why you don't need a middleman. You just transfer numbers and pretend they quantify imaginary thing that you call "bitcoin".

So your idea for a "perfect" currency is a currency that are based on debt? ===> https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

The imaginary "debt" that are being controlled or rather uncontrolled by corrupt governments around the world? You might be one of the lucky people who live in a first world country where the demise of fiat currencies are slowed down and manipulated by a very clever government... but for many people living in third world countries... that reality is already showing it's ugly face. (Hyperinflation -- Venezuela, Hungary, Zimbabwe, and Yugoslavia)

Satoshi Nakamoto created this technology to eliminate the corrupted "middleman" (Governments & Banks) and to stop the manipulation of the currency by replacing that with real "Supply and demand".

Why should people only have one currency? Why should the use of that currency be enforced with guns and violence? Why should a few elites determine the value of that currency? ====> Bitcoin was created to give people an alternative option and a choice if they wanted to use the Fiat currency or if they wanted to take the control of their own wealth and to use it as an alternative. Wink

I have no ideas. I am just stating the fact that quantity on paper bills or banking accounts quantifies debt ownership. Debt is not imaginary. It is created with every granted loan, paid with every loan repayment, and protected with collateral. And yes, in some countries the debt is bad, but that has nothing to do with non-existence of Bitcoin.

It has a lot to do with Bitcoin, because YOU are using it as a comparison. Answer me this... Can computer code have value? (Let me answer for you, because I know you are cherry picking certain things in people's responses and you are just answering those... Yes, it can have a value, because we are paying for digital software like MS Windows or Office / Applications in Play Store etc.. etc.)

So if a well-known artists creates digital art work and he/she link that to a transferable Blockchain (Smart Contract) ...then people will pay for that art... because there are a demand for it.

So, Satoshi created a "digital" token that are limited and transferable, so people can take ownership of that digital token and it is displayed on a public ledger that are shared.

Soon Governments and Banks will have their own tokens & Blockchains ....and Fiat slaves like you, will once again be forced to use that. (Why is there not a global ban on Crypto currencies?.... because government and Banks want to develop their own) Grin

Code is a set program instructions that do something. Hence, code is something that exists. Numbers are human concepts that express the quantity existent things. So you can say that you own 10 (quantity) MS Office programs. But quantity in itself is just an abstraction, mathematical concept of the human mind. In blockchain, you have numbers, but not the thing these numbers are supposed to quantify. The thing is nonexistent, and as such it is called bitcoin. P.S. nonexistent things have no value, not even zero. Dust particle has zero value, because it exists. Value is the property of existent things. The phrase "value of Bitcoin" or "Bitcoin has zero value" is an oxymoron given it gives the property of value to something that doesn't exist.

Satoshi created software that via which he tells lies after POW: "go spend electricity, show the POW and my software will tell you that you own 50 peaces of a digital asset called bitcoin." That's a lie. No address holders own digital asset. It only hold number next to its address. Number that quantities nothing. And nothing is called "bitcoin".

Your prophecy on governments and banks I don't want to comment.