Quote from: Dabs on June 10, 2021, 11:32:38 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on June 10, 2021, 04:19:21 AM

Quote from: Dabs on June 09, 2021, 02:47:04 PM

I will not accept that you gave me 10 eggs if you didn't actually give me 10 eggs, nor will I accept that you gave me 10 Ferrarris if those cars are not in my garage and I have possession of the key that turns them on.

If you say you give me 10 BTC or 10 bitcoins though, I will also not accept that you actually gave me 10 bitcoins until I see the quantity in my wallet, verified by miners. If it's nothing to you, I could care less, because to me, it is something.

But until I can verify in my address that I control, that I have the private keys to, that the transaction was confirmed in a block, then you did not send me any bitcoins.

At this point, it is irrelevant what the US dollar (or fiat) price is of those bitcoins. If a block explorer does not say I have it, you did not send it, then I don't have the bitcoins. If my wallet software (that does not look too fancy as I just use either Bitcoin Core or Electrum) does not indicate the addresses contain bitcoin, then you didn't send me any bitcoins.

Beyond all this discussion, it becomes either academic or moot or pointless as most of us don't have time to explain anything else to you. If it's being talked about, that's something, not nothing.

Interesting. So, you will not accept my statement that you have 10 eggs if I didn't actually give you 10 eggs. You will not accept my statement that you have 10 Ferrarris if those cars are not in your garage and you have possession of the key that turns them on. Nor will you accept my statement that you have 10 BTC if the quantity is not in your wallet. Ok. Then I have only one question for you: why then are you accepting Satoshi's statements that you have xx BTC if Satoshi never actually gave you BTC, but only quantity statement - "xx", and name "BTC"? Because quantity statement and name is something that you recieved from me as well: "10", "eggs", "10", "Ferraris", "10", "BTC". And I have no problem arranging for you to have them verified on the blockchain and to get you private keys and address that you control. If I arrange all that will you give me xx USD for the quantity statement on nonexistent Ferraris? If not, why are you giving xx USD for Satoshi's quantity statements on nonexistent BTC?

If you can give me 10 BTC or provide the private keys to the address that have them, and allow me to transfer it to my own address, then I will accept that you have given me 10 BTC, provided at least 1 confirmation or block of the transaction.

If you have no problem arranging for all that, then I accept you have given me the BTC. But you have not made any arrangements at all. There is an address in my profile, you can try sending there if you want to prove something. So far, there is not.

I have no interest in your Ferraris and I'm certainly not paying for them. If you give them to me, that's different.

You have not given me 10 BTC yet, so ... this is all pointless.

If you are merely talking semantics, it makes no difference to me whether it's a quantity statement of a supposedly non-existent Bitcoins. We all know it's control or access to the same quantities but everyone accepts it as just "you sent me bitcoin, or I paid you bitcoin" which can be easily confirmed, if you actually sent it.

So send or do not send, I don't care if you think it exists or it doesn't, if it shows up in my wallet and I can confirm it independently from you, together with all the thousand of other full nodes out there, then I will accept you sent me BTC. If it's on the blockchain, it exists on the blockchain.

Satoshi has been out of the picture for several years, you can leave him out of it.

Quote from: Antithesis on June 10, 2021, 04:19:21 AM

Also, you keep talking about Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't exist. Only fake quantities on Bitcoin exist. If Bitcoin would exist you would be able to show either tangible or intangible good that provides direct benefit, or financial instrument that have subject with the liability to provide you something for the quantity in your wallet.

You said you believe in God but you also sound like an atheist. That seems contradictory.

No, I can give you the same thing Satoshi's software does - statement on BTC existence. There you go: "Dabs - 10 BTC". So, this statement is informing you that you now own 10 bitcoins. There's no difference between this statement, and that of Satoshi's software, which you can read in your wallet. Both talk about quantity and name of a thing that doesn't exist in reality. The fact that Satoshi's statement is written after POW, shown via fancy application, and transfered between names that is blockchain addresses, doesn't change the fact that it's just a statement. Statements don't make things coming into existence. It is really mind blowing how you people cannot tell the difference between statements about things and things themselves.