Quote from: Poker Player on Today at 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:47:22 AM

I am not sure if you really believe this self-fulfilling prophecy concept.

Lol. I said I've been thinking about it lately. I don't believe it like some people believe in God if that's what you mean.

That's good.

Wink

Quote from: Poker Player on Today at 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:47:22 AM

I doubt that bitcoin gives any shits about whether Saylor likes it or not or whether Saylor promotes it or not...

If we are talking about the very long term, of course not. Bitcoin if I remember correctly started being traded for price below $0.01 (correct me if I'm wrong). If we agree that in the future it will be worth $1M or more, Saylor has little influence on that long process.

If we talk about the last year and the near future, I think it has played an important role, especially in the popularization to companies and to a lesser extent to retail investors. Nowadays you search for "Bitcoin" on Youtube and you immediately get Saylor's videos.

In terms of companies, in February they held their annual user conference which included the Bitcoin for Corporations. According to Mr. Saylor, the Bitcoin program attracted 8,197 attendees from 6,917 different enterprises. He has the videos posted on the website for anyone who wants to see them.

For sure you are not going to find me arguing with facts about his coming to fame, a lot of public attention, and even a lot of personal work in bitcoin to really garner and gain attention (and the ears) of a lot of institutional thinkers, rich peeps and even normies who had previously NOT been paying attention to bitcoin. Sure, I can concede all of these factual happenings and still stand by all of the points that I have already made.. I am not really in conflict with you except for how I mentioned the "self-fulfilling prophecy" talkenings and any worshiping (or narrowing of causation) implications that might inspire you and/or others to go down such a framing of what's happening in bitcoinlandia path.

Quote from: Poker Player on Today at 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:47:22 AM

I don't disagree with other ideas in your post, except the implication that you are trying to make that Saylor has any actual material or meaningful role in bitcoin's success....

Again, if we consider the long term in Bitcoin, I think he has little influence. And that Bitcoin is going to succeed more because of its intrinsic properties than anything else.

For sure, it is like getting in front of a mass of moving people and saying look at me, look at me, I am the leader, and so then the mass of moving people triples in size in a matter of 6 months.. o.k... sure there was a contribution because more people came into the mass.. but we cannot really measure exactly what would have happened if saylor had not jumped into the limelight (don't get me wrong.. I am surely not ungrateful and I agree with a lot of what he does, except maybe some of his ESG nonsense in recent times.. but whatever.. peeps gonna do whatever they are going to do).

Quote from: Poker Player on Today at 06:32:05 AM

But I didn't want to focus on him so much as on to what would happen if big businessmen happen to have the same conception of Bitcoin as Saylor and act like him, buying a lot of Bitcoin to never sell it, which means a reduction in offer in large quantities. MSTR has approximately 100K Bitcoin. You could get to the point where 1M BTC or more are never offered to be bought.

Of course, those kinds of things are already happening, and sure sometimes the sourcing of coins might have to come from numerous entities/persons... and of course, we know what happens with the more of those kinds of things going on, that kind of dynamic puts upwards pressures on the BTC price.

If someone wants 1 million coins, s/he could get those million coins, but it might cause the BTC price to go to $1million as well (and maybe it takes them several months - or maybe even a year to get the coins).. but whatever.. we already should appreciate that these kinds of dynamics are quite likely to happen.. and they are already happening to some degree.. but no one of such size has been as public as Saylor..... even though there are a hell of a lot of companies BIGGER than Saylor and able to buy more coins than Saylor (but they might not be ready and willing which is part of the gamble that Saylor is playing and likely somewhat correct about in terms of the nimbleness of his own company and the way that it is structured with him controlling the whole damned thing) and many of us already have appreciated that his public company position causes him to have to disclose and perhaps even overdisclose...

Quote from: Poker Player on Today at 06:32:05 AM

By the way, this is the first time I've replied to you at length in a post, and I enjoyed it.

I can come off as a meanie sometimes in terms of sometimes calling someone a dummy (when I really believe that the ideas are dumb), but hardly ever do I mean anything personal. I am not even saying anything about your level of intelligence ONLY because I still remain concerned about the self-fulfilling prophecy idea... and sure I might change my mind, but so far not.... I prefer to stick to my guns on this one... even if some of the devil is in the details...

Quote from: Poker Player on Today at 06:32:05 AM

Today marks one year since I registered on Bitcointalk and I feel old enough

You old foggie. Tongue

Oh maybe I cannot recall your backstory... have you been investing in bitcoin before you came to the forum, or did you just start to get involved in bitcoin in 2020? Maybe you are Michael Saylor.. ? Oh shit... Hi Michael.. did not mean to say mean things about you...