Quote from: DrGamma on March 22, 2014, 10:20:51 PM

Quote from: rik_khaos on March 22, 2014, 08:20:24 PM

Dr. Gamma

You might possibly want to remove scam from the website. Especially the definitive "is a scam" just to protect your self. Maybe make it a question. Is AMT a scam? It keeps it from being libelous if they do have miners that just haven't shipped because of the hardware issues but still plants the seed and questions about the company.

You wouldn't want to give them a reason to launch a countersuit.

Definition of scam from internet:

"scam
noun
1.
a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, especially for making a quick profit; swindle."

This describes exactly what has been done to me. They lied that they would deliver a 1.2TH miner on 1/25/2014 and several subsequent dates (still no delivery as of 3/22/2014 and no updates on progress). They refused payment with a credit card knowing I would get a refund if they did not deliver. They made a quick profit. Time of delivery of the unit was of the essence because of the nature of bitcoin difficulty increasing. They knew this and used it to pressure customers like me to pay them with wire transfers. Even if they deliver the miner tomorrow, I've already lost about 10 bitcoins with this delay.

I have not sued them, just want to warn others about what is going on. If they were honest and stated the miners were a vision they would like to develop with our money and not a product that would be delivered on a given date, I would have waited to invest (like many others that were scammed like me.)

Updated today again:

http://www.advancedminers-clients.com/

I'm keeping the fact that they scammed me on the site at this time, because they clearly did.

It's not as simple as you make it. This business is mostly a preorder market. They don't have to claim it was a vision to develop with your money. If there is a delay they are required to inform you of it though. At the time I ordered it was obvious they were taking pre orders for batches of unfinished product like most of the other miner sites working with new chip technology. If you looked on bitmines site or on AMTs site (if they didn't back date it like they did in Feb) they they talk about tape out which means the chips weren't even ready for the product. That alone is going to play in their favor. Plus the terms of their sale make reference to delays especially if it is due to their suppliers, which would have been the case for your shipment because the chip manufacturer didn't deliver on time. So their belief that the manufacture could keep their timetable does not equal fraud.

How did they use it to pressure you? Just curious, because they never once called me to solicit a payment maybe it was different for you. Plus I had the ability to pay via bitcoin, wire or check. I chose check of my own free will without any pressure

They as a business are able to choose which forms of payment they will accept. They apparently accept payments for their smaller units (or so they say) via credit card probably because they had merch or supplies on hand. With credit cards you are going to have to deal with a ton of chargebacks which would be a pain in the ass with a pre-order product so they didn't accept them for the 1.2th miner.

You've not lost 10 bitcoins. You can't count what you would have made as a loss as any amount you thought you would have got was purely speculation because you had no control over how slow or fast that difficulty was going to raise. Or I should say by how much not how quickly.

They haven't followed federal regulations, but again that doesn't prove there is a fraudulent scheme, that would require proof that they didn't intend to ever assemble, never bought parts, or didn't intend to ever ship the product.

You clicked that you read the terms, just like everyone else so like everyone else that is on you.