Quote from: pungopete468 on March 23, 2014, 08:45:10 PM

Quote from: dead_bit on March 23, 2014, 08:24:46 PM

1. So BTC value isn't currently influenced by speculation?
2. see point 1
3. Trustless? Define trustless because that statement means nothing
4. I agree there but the dollar wasn't always fractional either and it was that very function which killed it
5. what commodity? it isn't tied to anything, unless we have gold bitcoins now
6. ok, because we don't see these exchanges getting ripped off for however many btc

as far as gold goes well there are obvious benefits but I'll dispel it all in one simple statement.

In the event of a major economic collapse you all have the assumption you will be able to afford the internet and power. I'm doubting that anyone could in the event of a collapse. Once those two factors are gone, BTC dies a quick death.

1. I'm asserting that everything on the market today; goods, services, gold, and Bitcoin included are all suffering from the effect of our credit based system. The market is not an accurate representation today of what it should be in reality.
3. Trustless means that you don't need to trust a third party to facilitate your transaction. You don't need to trust the authenticity of the issuer because Bitcoin is a protocol; not a central third party.
4. The dollar must be fractional to facilitate quick or digital transfers; unlike Bitcoin where transfers do not create a fractional system.
5. Bitcoins are tied to every commodity in the same way that every other commodity is tied to one-another. The value of Bitcoin is a factor of trading for goods, services, or investments/commodities.
6. The exchanges are required to trade for fiat. The exchanges aren't a representation of the security of Bitcoin. The exchange servers have always been the vulnerable point.

After fiat collapses the market will correct itself. Anybody who can afford internet now will likely be able to afford the internet after a collapse. The infrastructure already exists, the price will adapt.

1. I can agree with point 1 in the sense that the market is not an accurate reflection of value.

2. This does nothing to affect the value of bitcoin. BTC is just as prone to corruption, theft, and lying as any other investment tool.

3. The term fractional has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about. The dollar is fractional to cover the sheer cost of what it is asked to do. It was made into a fractional reserve currency because it could not expand the money supply in a way that was sufficient to expand the economy. It was finite and so only so much of it could be used.

4. Bitcoin isn't used to trade for anything so your statement is pointless. Please show me where you can buy something for bitcoin.

5. The exchange servers will always be necessary because no one will ever accept bitcoin.

How will all this infrastructure be maintained? How will people be paid for the services they provide to maintain this infrastructure? Some enterprising individual might come up with some great answers but I have yet to see those answers get pushed forward. I have some answers but I'm banking on fiat not collapsing for a simple reason. All the guns say it won't. There are more guns then you could possibly imagine and if the guns say don't accept bitcoin everyone will fall into line. This is the world we live in, it's much more horrible and disingenuous then 1984. Hence why I make my "psychological" reference. All money is simply a psychological tool.