Quote from: FatherMcGruder on March 03, 2011, 12:55:26 AM

Quote from: kiba on March 03, 2011, 12:09:33 AM

What you're actually worth is based on supply and demand, what you can negotiate, and no more.

Supply and demand determines what one can trade for with that which he produces. If one gets traded on the market, he is livestock. Workers deserve better than the likes of livestock. If you negotiate for anything less than the value of that which you produce and the decision making power over it, you have been coerced into such an arrangement, are ignorant or delusional, or deliberately giving your labor and self-determination away for far less than you deserve.

Quote from: TheKid on March 03, 2011, 12:47:32 AM

And FatherMcGruder - If you can't see the flaw in your argument, I can't show you. You think that a voluntary contract is exploitation. I think that's silly, because it's voluntary. We're spinning our wheels here.

Why do you think that voluntary contracts always signify a lack of coercion or exploitation? I can easily think of examples where they do not.

Yes yes the old 'work for me for pennies or don't and starve'. Not a valid argument - someone else will come along who needs labor and offer a better deal, the hypothetical worker can start his own business, or do contract work if there is enough demand.