Quote from: LoyceV on January 06, 2022, 07:24:55 PM

I create this topic because I challenged franky1 to join a civil discussion with all arguments in one place:

Quote from: LoyceV on January 06, 2022, 06:08:04 PM

@franky1: If I create a self-moderated topic (Lauda called me Switzerland for being neutral; I won't delete any of your posts, but I will call you out if you go off-topic), are you willing to engage? I expect it will be "you vs a couple of other users", but from what I've seen, you can handle yourself. I would like to discuss your points on LN that I've seen in far too many different topics, and it would be nice if we can reach consensus on at least part of the discussion.

My invitation was accepted by franky1:

Quote from: franky1 on January 06, 2022, 06:29:54 PM

i can engage.
and out of respect i will even take my own advice and step back from the computer between posts and take some breathing time between posts, and avoid (as i see other do)just hitting reply to rage reply.

if others can do the same. and answer without shining their bias/advertising PR stance of utopia, and respond rationally and thinking outside their small box. then great

it could actually lead to some proper dialogue.

Anyone else than franky1: I will delete unfriendly posts, and I will delete off-topic posts. See my unedited archive when that happens.

~~Rules~~ Guidelines:
Please keep this topic civil.
Please keep the discussion only here, and not in other topics.
If there's something worth reading in another topic, quote it here instead of posting a link.
Try to limit the scope: ~~don't throw 30 different arguments in one post, it will lead to endless replies~~. Update: separate posts in a row aren't allowed, so making different posts for each argument won't work. BlackHatCoiner expressed intentions much better:

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on January 06, 2022, 07:45:43 PM

I want to add this as a condition: We'll speak of one topic at a time. Scalability? Scalability. Lightning's protocol? Lightning's protocol. Consensus? Consensus. This way we can clarify which are our interlocutor's disagreements and constructively (& friendly) correct them.

Read everything before responding. Try to avoid duplicate replies.
Newbies: read more, post less, and create an informed opinion.
To consider: I removed franky1 from my ignore list. I think that's only fair considering the topic I started.

To start: I use on-chain Bitcoin, and I use Bitcoin LN. Bitcoin can work with or without LN, LN can't work without Bitcoin. I don't like high fees, as it limits adoption. I would like to see Bitcoin grow in value, userbase and number of transactions per second, and I think we need all three of those for Bitcoin to grow. How, that's up for debate.

Quote from: franky1 on January 06, 2022, 03:42:57 PM

LN is a different network for a reason. it has its own usecase and niche and utility that differs from bitcoins.

Nice work .

I am glad you did this.