Quote from: mv1986 on Today at 04:58:05 AM

Quote from: AndySt on January 14, 2022, 11:27:13 PM

Quote from: Coyster on January 14, 2022, 08:39:48 PM

Quote from: Minecache on January 14, 2022, 03:40:34 PM

-snip

Messi was a great player for Barcelona, prolly the best to ever come out of camp nou, but I'd not say that he singlehandedly carried Barcelona to glory, I know he was their most important and influential player, But Barcelona is a great club and they had a lot of quality players, Messi made them absolutely complete, but he wasn't everything, he also needed other players to function as well, what I mean is, Barca and Messi had a seamless relationship. Just take a look at how things are panning out in PSG for Messi, he isn't at his best cause he does not seem to have the sort of connection he had at Barcelona. Having said that, I still don't think PSG are somewhat ready to win the CL, they have the individual talents, but as a team, they are not the best and it could still take them a while before they are CL champions.

I also disagree with the fact that Messi allegedly single-handedly created the success of a team like Barcelona. Barcelona was just as strong as a team and their famous tiki-taka just requires great teamwork and the same great performers that were available. Therefore, of course, it is foolish to say that all the recent successes of Barcelona are solely the merits of Messi. Let's not forget that the backbone of that Barcelona was also an important part of the Spanish national team that became world and European champions. In addition, let's not forget that Messi is not getting any younger, and therefore his factor as a player also weakens with time, so the Paris Saint-Germain management should definitely keep this in mind.

To say that it was solely due to Messi goes way too far, but if you look at some of the solo goals he scored in important matches (against Real Madrid in the CL semis, or against Athletic Bilbao in the Copa del Rey final for example), it showed that at least some of the titles were won because of him. Even in a game where he didn't score (which rarely happened), the opponents were so focussed to keep Messi out of the game that there was tremendous space for all other players. I can't think of a single player who would have scored 50 goals in a single season in the Primera División even with Xavi and Iniesta still playing.
However, I fully agree with you that Barcelona was THE perfect squad for a couple of years from goalkeeper to the offenders. The balance within the team was out of this world and yet Messi still was the one who stuck out. There are phases where free-kicks were almost like penalties for him. That's just unreal.
We were lucky to have had the chance to see two of the best soccer players of all time to compete with each other, Messi and Ronaldo. I remember when everyone thought that Henry for Barcelona and Raul for Madrid was crazy, but that wasn't even close to Messi vs. Ronaldo. Not sure if we get to see it again on that level or even beyond within our lifetime.

Okay maybe saying "singlehandedly" was a bit much on my side but you for sure cannot deny that he had the most impactful performance on the field. Even when he is not having the ball, his movement also made space for others to score. He assisted tons of goals for Suarez and Neymar all while scoring by himself. I would say that he was the player that stuck the team together. Even before he left, Barca were in a good place. Look at Barcelona right now after he's gone. They are in shambles.

Quote from: kro55 on Today at 01:40:55 PM

Quote from: Maidak on Today at 12:10:31 PM

Quote from: Coyster on January 14, 2022, 08:39:48 PM

Messi wasn't singlehandedly carrying but he had the most impact on the pitch for Barcelona. We also cannot deny the impact players like Xavi, Iniesta or Neymar had but Messi had the most impact. Before Neymar and Suarez joined, he had the duty of scoring goals and he did that very well. Even scoring 91 goals in a calendar year.
(I dunno how he did that) After Neymar and Suarez joined, he moved to the right flank and assisted them with tons of goals also while he scored lots by himself.

@Coyster, yes agreed, not singlehandedly but he was the most important player in my eyes. I'm not saying that Iniesta or Xavi didn't do anything for Barcelona but if we look at the larger timeline, with Xavi/Iniesta and after the Xavi/Iniesta era, Messi is the most important one. Even before he left, Barcelona were in a good state. Their attacks were good,, the build-up was good. But after he left, it seemed like Barcelona forgot to build up to the attack.

@kro55, the fact that he has been the most influential and important and also consistent player for Barcelona over the years. Barcelona were always a star squad with lots of tier-one players. But even when Barcelona were a lower-tier squad - last season, he didn't let them feel like they were an average squad without Suarez, Neymar, Xavi, Iniesta. But when he left, Barcelona faced the uncanny. Their downward spiral is still ongoing.