Quote from: franky1 on January 26, 2022, 01:51:25 AM

Quote from: maidenvoyage on January 24, 2022, 07:16:30 PM

So.. these 3 points: Energy, doubtful markets, legacy Banking system and Governments putting up hindrances, not user-friendly .. Actually 4 points..I think.. will reduce the usefulness and success of crypto in the future.
And.. markets that are not really liquid and understood and even less regulated.. 5 points.

listing your points better as you said more in the description of your experiences
1. you said you thought bitcoins "intrinsic value" was based on hoarding.. um no.
golds intrinsic value is not on hoarding for speculated price. bitcoins price/value is not set by markets evaluating users that have no market deposits. the market price is set by those wanting to sell.

Humm?? I never even used these words. I can live with the fact that BTCUSD conversion price is just that. a price..
Based on hoarding? what does that even mean? Intrinsic or speculative.. I do not care. I was a firm believer in BTC.. but.. as I said.. If it becomes a part of your Wealth.. The IRS will have to know, will know, it will have the same restrictions and all.
It's utility is seriously hampered being not at all user friendly, tons of people loosing their private keys all the time. The energy problem becoming more a hindrance. So.. I mean.. you Americans cannot hold Gold either.. because your government prohibits it because in Bretton woods it was declare the anchor for FIAT.
Lots of people that write here have a little holding on some site.. I am sure, few people have control over their Private Keys, as I do with my ledger.. But hey.. to maintain this.. It is difficult.. The Mnemonic phrase.. hardware failures.. somebody breaking into my house and finding the 24 words (yes.. they are on a piece of paper)..
Well.. I just do not think it will be the freeing, Libertine brave new world... that I thought it would be.. when I invested in 2014.

2. government hindrances
yes the conversion to fiat is a pain. because fiat banks have rules and limits. but you are not forced to convert it to fiat just to hand it down to your kids.
yes some governments have advised banks to be extra cautious with large funds coming from known bitcoin exchanges. but the sentiment of 'evil' was strong in 2014 and has actually started to relax in 2022
the UK for instance closed peoples bank accounts in 2014 but now they just treat it as a normal money transfer where they only question the amount. and not auto-evil a transaction due to its known bitcoin source.
i think some of the banking problems you experienced were not bitcoin direct linked. but more so large amount and also from a chillian bank to a brazilian bank causing some flags/questions.
you might have had a better experience using a brazilian based exchange that pays out in brazilian real

I used BINANCE too.. as a test.. transferred 1 BTC.. They had me make a KYC like a normal Bank.. and that is what they are. I am sure, that end of year they WILL transfer all info, with my Brazilian Tax Number to the Brazilian Receita Federal.. which is OK now.. because.. to liquidate my holdings.. I actually had to put all my Crypto Holdings on my IRPF.. my Brazilian tax declaration.
Now.. since 2021.. here in Brazil.. If I buy or sell Btc I have to inform it same day on the site of Receita Federal.. and pay Capitals Gains tax.. as with any other asset.

3. bitcoin utility(you might confuse with intrinsic value)
bitcoins utility value is to make transactions that dont need banks. so if you have 14btc. and you want to hand it to your kids. you can do so in the privacy of your home without reporting to a bank why you are shifting $490k of value. your kids can hoard it without being penalised by inheritance tax the moment they get a confirm. they can take it to another country and buy a house on some exotic island without your native bank/ tax office monitoring $ movements

Well.. as my experience tells me.. NO.. you cannot pass your bitcoins without the IRS seeing them.. well. you can.. but then.. when you want to use it.. it just becomes normal money.. which you have to declare.. or jump through loops and holes to funnel the worth into real FIAT money.
I am sure. If I go with lots of BTC to the Bahamas.. and try to buy an Island.. they want to see all the normal paperwork.. As with any other currency.. This together with the hassle, risk, dangers of "being your own bank".. I do not see it anymore..
That does by no end mean to sell all your BTC.. I am still positive that it will hit 100.000 USD/btc.. someday.. just because of its scarcity.. But.. hmm.. I could also imagine it just slipping off into oblivion.. slowly bleeding out its value.
And this argument that mining costs 30k USD/BTC.. If the price falls below that.. some miners will go bust and only the ones with the lowest Mining cost will survive, and a new hash rate will establish.. where it is worth to mine BTC at 500USD/BTC.. also ok..

4.market liquidity.
yes its clear markets do things like 'ghost orders' where they fill the market order books with lots of orders and just cancel them before the order is hit if they dont want the price to go in that direction. yes exchange owners also arbitrage using stable coins from one exchange to another to take the advantage of different market prices which then brings both exchanges into balance with each other(before letting the customers take the advantage)
and yes although you see lots of pending orders and lots of filled orders. some.. not all but some are done without having their account balance backed by deposits. which is illegal. and that needs to be regulated for consumer protection (avoid another 'gox')

Read the article that I posted.. 95% of volume is fake.. Which is also OK.. still lots of volume..Just not compared to the volume of other currencies..

5. mining 'climate' 'wastage'
if everyone was GPU mining. the electric usage per reward would be massively higher. asics have made mining more energy efficient. as have using pools. and asic farms located in renewable energy regions.
when you read propaganda media saying chinese mining is only 15% clean. thats not based on any analysis of visiting an asic farm and sourcing which power plant its attached to. instead its just generalising china's national renewable number and saying that asic farms must be mixed with all type. its very lazy reporting.
lets take america. its mining is only about 14twh a year. and yet within the decade america wants to be majority Electric car transport system. but that requires 1050twh a year to have all us cars electric.
yep cars use 75x more energy then Us bitcoin . and right now 98% of all cars are fossil fuelled. where as bitcoin mining is only 15% fossil fuelled.
so if you want to pick a climate debate. look at the car industry

Yeah.. No arguments here.. Just.. for such a gimmicky item as BTC spending 14tWH seems preposterous. And will be conceived as preposterous.. and this IS a problem.. for BTC and its acceptance.

bitcoins hashrate has been lingering around an average 150ex for years. +/- 0.3x . yet the car industry needs to grow by 50-75x in under 10 years.

wrote my answer into your quote.. did not know better..
Look guys.. I just wanted to give another opinion to this HODL is everything.. It will go up..I will get rich.. BTC is the answer, talk.. that is written here..Although the tread is "who controls the market" is probably not the best place.. I decided to give my opinion here.. Because one of the critiques I have, is that the market really is NOT as shiny as BinanceCoinbaseKraken and the other 10 players like you to think. It is a fickle backwater.

. and.. as I told you guys.. I walk the talk.. I decided to cash in on my holdings.. because.. well.. that is all written already.. But to sum it up again: BTC was a great Investment. I got in at 500USD, already everybody said.. this is crazy for a crypto currency to be valued so high.. Rode it up to 51.000 and got out...not at 68.. but very well.. For the future.. I think 1. Energy use and its negative Image effect 2. Legacy Banking sector really not liking the thing and politically being better connected WILL hamper its usefulness 3. Total lack of user-friendliness. Be your own bank.. try it.. own your keys.. have them save, so that when your house burns down you still have a backup etc.etc.. only for very few..
Well.. that's it.. That will make it an edge case investment and will impede, that huge number of people own, trade and depend with their savings on BTC.
Tell me what you think.. It is only an opinion..