Quote from: franky1 on Today at 04:27:01 PM

ok.. this guy is being arrogently ignorant.

last time, just for fun

you are not buying the ability to watch a number.

you are buying a medium of exchange that has many features and benefits that has a cost.
that cost is somewhere between $35-$85k right now

depending on how available it is for you to get, either o-t-c, market or mining. is a deciding factor of convenience, ability and time it requires to get 1btc for the different methods.

EG if you live in kazahkstan you could probably find a way to get it for $37k instead of the market price of $39k
EG if you live in germany you wont want to get it from mining at $80k+, so instead prefer the market price of $39k

but no where, no place, no way can you get bitcoin for $2 . so the value of bitcoin is not $2
near everyone is willing to sell for atleast $35k. and make profit if they sell for more.

its not like there are 2 people rolling 14,000 dice each where by they both get a random number. of meaningless. each. and then agree on a middle.

instead its based on acquisition costs. that value between a current value window of $35k-$85k where diffferent regions have different price points. where some can buy it real cheap vs other places where its at a bit of a premium to other methods of acquiring

the reason they want it in the first place is a multitude of reasons.
the way that its a currency that offers different features that banks dont
the way that its a currency that offers different less restrictions than banks do
how you can hand it to another owner without needing to explain reasons
how you can buy things with it
how you can be the sole controller of transfers
how it is irreversible
how its immutable
how it does not rely on government involvement
how its deflationary, to hedge against inflation
you can treat it like a 'trust' without having to get a solicitor/lawyer to draw up 'trust documents'
you can use it like an off-shore tax shelter. store value without having to do any banking shuffling
keep it as a pension pot or assign it as inheritance without having to do complex Will's or contracts
.. and so on

Quote from: Antithesis on Today at 03:56:59 PM

There's nothing false. Redeemable means able to be bought back by the issuer. It doesn't mean able to be traded. If I buy a government bond on the market I didn't redeem that bond. Only the government can do that by paying me the face value of the bond.

here is the thing though..
take zimbabwe..
having a 1trillion Z$ is redeemable for??
nothing now

people in zimbabwe dont even use zimbabwe dollar. it broke. its finito

in the 1900's a US $10 bank note could buy 75 loaves of bread.
i guarantee you if you handed in a $10 bank note they would not redeem it for something that can buy you 75 loaves of bread
they have not secured value, they are not liable to you for 75 loaves of bread per $10 bank note

all you would get is another more crisp fresh smelling $10 note. which can only buy you the same 4 bread loaf value as today
if you hold it for 10 years. i guarantee you, you wont be able to buy more then 3 loaves of bread with it.

at best/worse you might decide to accept 1000 copper heavy coins. hoping to sell it for scrap for equivalent of 8 loaves of value(at best) but thats with the hassle of then trying to get someone to convert the scrap metal for value equivalent to loaves of bread, at scrap metal value

but government/banks are not securing value or liable to you for the 75 loaf value of the past.
nor are they securing or made liable to always give you 4 loaves of bread value for bank notes held today, in the future

the serial number of a trillion zimbabwe dollar bank note you admire so much as 'security' is worth not even a square millimetre of a single sheet of toilet paper.. meaning a trillion Zdollar bank note is not even worth wiping your ass with it.

yet 1btc (of many) that i got in 2012, which could get me 3loaves of bread, can now get me 15,600 loaves of bread.
because deflation is better than inflation.

i also used some coin to do trades, to secure funds for pension, some inheritance to nephews, and to pass funds through customs without having to hold a debit card or paper cash on me when travelling.. heck it even paid for the ticket and hotel...
i also paid rent with it, bought food with it. furniture and loads of other things,

heck a couple evenings a week, when people complain that my words are not grammatically precise, is because of a nice bottle of whiskey paid for in btc

Hahaha. It is actually you who is being arrogently ignorant.

The fact is this. After buying bitcoin I literally am only able to watch a number. There's nothing to eat, wear, drink, drive ... There's nothing to use as jewelry or energy. There's no entity with the liability to return me the capital I invested in it. There's only a number that I am able to watch.

Now, you can call this ability "a medium of exchange" or "currency". You can say it has many features and benefits. You can talk about availability, irreversibility, immutability, costs of mining, someone's profit, inflation, deflation, government, pension ... whatever. But still, after paying $38,000 I am still only able to watch a number on the screen. That's all I got. I cannot redeem that number at the issuer. I cannot use it for consumption. I cannot use it as an intermediate good. Nothing. All I can do is watch it like pictures are watched. No matter how many fancy concepts you mention. No matter how many fancy words you use. No matter what you say and do, this fact won't change.

So, I am not interested in your philosophical rants. The only thing I am interested in is the answer to a simple question: why would I pay $38,000 only to be able to watch number on the screen?