Quote from: witcher_sense on Today at 10:22:53 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on Today at 09:44:11 AM

Bitcoin is simply a name given to a number in a "digital box" that Satoshi designed. In the same way, you can design a physical box, put a limited number of grains of sand in it, give these grains a fancy name, mark them somehow to be unique and voilà, your grains are scares. No, they are not. The same is true for numbers.

Also, scarcity is referred to things people can live off of. From numbers in a database no one can.

Of course, you can create your own cryptocurrency and give it whatever name, but it won't in any way affect bitcoin or make it less scarce or significant. Yes, bitcoin, like any other software, is merely a set of zeroes and ones that behave in a certain way and perform certain functions, but these numbers differ from any other numbers because they stay inside the bitcoin system which has value only because people consider it valuable. If people stop considering bitcoin a valuable thing, they won't be investing their time, money, and effort to interact with it. It will become worthless, like any other thing should people stop deeming it valuable. What you need to do before trying to convince people that bitcoin is not valuable is you need to learn more about bitcoin, understand how and why it works, how so-called scarcity is achieved, how it is even possible, why people may want to put their money in it, why miners spend a valuable thing that everyone can live off of to obtain numbers that don't make sense and then you should convince yourself that everything you have learned about bitcoin can't work in the real world and is against all economic laws. Only when you have spent thousands of hours learning about every aspect of bitcoin, can you start to criticize it adequately without employing questionable analogies. There is no other way, no one can convince you to buy bitcoin until you convince yourself. This is an absolutely voluntary system.

We can make a system where grains of sand stay only inside that system. But, they are still grains of sand. They are abundant in quality. Numbers are infinite in quality. Btw, I am not criticizing bitcoin. It would be stupid to criticize a number. I am criticizing irrational human behavior.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:31:57 AM

Quote from: Antithesis on Today at 07:42:50 AM

That's completely besides the point. The point is that people (the so called miners) spend a ton of electricity only to get a number. Electricity is a valuable resource people can live off of. While a number is not. Numbers are worthless. Currently people buy these numbers blindly, because they are driven by greed, so miners are able to sell them. But what will happen when things turn around?

Regarding fiat currencies. You are ignoring the fact that fiat currency units are just an evidence in the process where borrowers borrow and return goods, services and labour(valuable things). In bitcoin system these things are not borrowed and returned but given for free(for worthless numbers). After people did that, they have faith someone will give them the equivalence of valuable things as well. Bitcoin is simply an evidence of people who live in this faith.

lets word things in your language. maybe you will see the point then

people (so called employees) spend a ton of muscle energy only to get a serial number. energy is a valuable resource people can live off
people (so called goldsmiths) spend a ton of fuel only to get a bunch of atoms. energy is a valuable resource people can live off
now lets repeat your example
people (the so called miners) spend a ton of electricity only to get a number. Electricity is a valuable resource people can live off of

regarding bitcoin
you are ignoring the fact that bitcoin is just evidence of complex mining where acquirers use valuable things(electricity). in fiat, bank notes are not created at a cost, they are evidence of 0cost creation..
in fiat these things are not mined, but given for free. after people get that, they have to give it back at extra cost to themselves(muscle energy) so banks can profit. banks work on faith that people will pay back more for something that cost nothing

Well, you can use whatever semantic tricks you want, but off of certain arrangements of atoms people can live. Off off others they cannot. A certain systems(banking) are designed to return people arrangements of atoms they can live off of. Others(crypto) are not. You cannot change reality via language.