Quote from: franky1 on February 12, 2022, 02:41:29 PM

Quote from: Antithesis on February 12, 2022, 12:31:15 PM

If I would write down my name and "1,000,000 ounces of gold" next to it, I would hold a record of name and number, but I would own nothing. You can write down whatever record you want. Either you or Satoshi. You can put that record on digital or paper media. But you would still own nothing. By buying bitcoin you gave up your ownership of something and become member of bitcoin community. Membership in this community is identified via numbers. Even if you buy all the membership identifications, you would still own nothing. You would simply be the holder of a number "18,000,000". And you're not even able to eat this. That is how this membership is worthless. Having all the bitcoins in the world, but not even being able to eat.

i eat food thanks to bitcoin.
i pay bills thanks to bitcoin.
i dont need to touch fiat to achieve this.

this case has been true for loads of people even as far back as 2010 when laszlo got pizza thanks to paying bitcoin in the frist example of bitcoin being used to buy real goods/services. laszlo did not need to touch fiat. he just needed to pay a bitcoin address some bitcoin, wait to open his front door and see a pizza delivery guy turn up
since then there are hundreds of thousands of merchants selling goods and services, millions of people using it to buy goods and services
millions of people using it for other uses too

the price of bitcoin in 2010 was: 10,000btc for ~$41 (1btc=~$0.0041c)
now its price is 1btc=~$41,000

the reason for the 10,000,000x cost of acquisition value difference is simple.
its become 10,000,000x more expensive to mine bitcoin

imagine it this way
114 cpu's were mining in 2010
114 cpu at a 90w electric consumption =10.26kw/h= 246.24kwh a day
at 12 cent/kw = $29.55 (combined mining cost for everyone to share 7200coin daily mined coins)
which is $0.0041c per btc acquisition value at american residential electric rate

imagine it this way
1.6m asics at $12k hardware cost each. $19,200,000,000
which spread hardware over 2 years = hard ware cost $29,223.74/btc for hardware
then we calculate the electric
1.6m asics at 3.25kwh =5,200,000kw/h
at us residential rate of 12cent(as used above) = $624,000 an hour = $16,640/btc
hardware+electric=$45,863.74 cost to mine at home in america

meaning hobby bitcoin miners prefer to buy rather than mine right now

at K'stan industrial rate of 4cent = $208,000 an hour = $5,546.67/btc
hardware+electric=$34,770.41 cost to mine at a kazahkstan asic farm

meaning kazahkstan mining farms prefer to mine rather than buy

you can actually look up the electric rate of different countries and calculate the costs. and work out which countries prefer to buy or mine.

so calculating the economic value is actually easy.
as for the utility value(features) which people want to acquire it. there are many things you can do with bitcoin and many people have many reasons. its not just to hoard to hedge against inflation.

people can actually buy things with it. i dont mean just swap for fiat. i mean actually buy (goods and services) without needing to touch fiat in the process. people choose to use bitcoin as oppose to other mediums. because bitcoin has features that they cant get in other mediums

features such as not needing to apply for an account needing to submit their name, home address, social security numbers. they just create a public key. easy. free, no registration required.
they can send funds internationally far cheaper then international fiat wire transfer
the recipient doesnt need documented ID to receive funds
it can be used to set up 'trust funds' without lawyers

using a bank note, you cant make a trust without lawyers and bank managers authorisation. sure you can stick it under a mattress and tell your wife and kids to only use the bank note after your death. but thats emotional trust. not a ruled 'trust'.

in bitcoin you just set up a multisig. no registration required no documented ID, no lawyers

it can be used to do many other things(some listed many posts ago)

You eat food thanks to people that produced it and then gave it up for membership in bitcoin community. You pay bills thanks to people that are willing to trade their ownership for membership. Storing and transferring membership identifications in bitcoin community is possible because miners give up their ownership of electricity in order get the same identifications. Generally, a small piece of plastic or stiff paper is used to identify you are a member of a group, organization or community. Here, a digital number is used for that purpose. As the community members, you organize events, join on social media to talk about economics, conspiracy theories about the banks, and utopian society. You think of yourselves as s superior to non-members. You live in an illusion that you own a revolutionary money or assets. You are dreaming of becoming rich. Your have feelings of being special, purposeful, taken care of, free. The last reminds of Visualize - Self-Realization Center Church, a philosophic and spiritual cult, led by Bret Stiles. (from the series The mentalist)

What you all have in common is that you were fooled into believing that you participated in an economic transaction. But you didn't. An economic transaction is the exchange of ownerships. You on the other hand exchanged ownership for membership. Basically you gave up something for nothing. The more things you gave up the higher is the rating in the community you earned, that is, you got bigger number. In a nutshell, bitcoin is the good old method to transfer wealth from the masses to the few. It's just that it is dressed up in a new uniform.

So, stop with this endless rants of yours. You cannot fool anyone here.