Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 07, 2022, 10:02:26 PM

Quote from: Polkeins on March 07, 2022, 06:06:32 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 07, 2022, 05:33:40 PM

Quote from: Polkeins on March 07, 2022, 09:15:52 AM

People have been living in debt for thousands of years, the oldest bank in Italy seems to be about 800 years old.
There is nothing wrong with the loans themselves. It is only important to be able to properly manage money.
In this case, it should be understood that in fact in the crypto you are not trading/ This is gambling. Therefore, the risks must also be calculated like in the casino.

But in general, it seems more logical to buy equipment(GPU maybe) and mining ETH or other coins, at least you can return some money in the future.
If you're newbie in trading and if you're going to trade altcoins, you should know that you can easily lose up to 99 percent of the deposit in a couple of transactions.

Who remembers the substratum knows what is that about.

We are not talking about shitcoins in this thread. Maybe refocus your answer/response in terms of discussion of bitcoin so at least you are talking about the correct underlying asset instead of getting distracted into off-topicness...

Otherwise, your first paragraph in which you assert that proper money management is the key to considering the whole matter... and yeah, hopefully we would not be using a loan to gamble but instead to invest - and sometimes the line between what is investing and what is gambling is not exactly clear and it depends upon the approach of the person getting the loan in terms of how to manage the funds... including how to calculate the risks and to account for both the upside and downside scenarios.. even extreme variations of each.. and at the same time having a plan for any of those scenarios including considering if it would be worth it to get the loan and to take those various risks that go beyond merely investing without such a loan.

Yes, here I probably got distracted by GPU mining when I mentioned altcoins, but this happened because I think that this is the simplest and most logical step for a beginner, in case if you will fail in mining you can be sold equipment or used it.
Bitcoin mining equipment costs much more than GPU equipment and it will be much more difficult to sell it if a bear market comes.
And so in fact, except for bitcoin (well, maybe ETH), all other assets have a negative correlation in the long term.
They may grow for a while, but over time, other, "new" altcoins come in their place. In fact, there is no market without bitcoin, and if we already consider some asset for long-term investment, including using credit funds, then this is bitcoin.

I do appreciate you further explaining what you were getting at, and surely there is a valid point that if you are attempting to invest into a business with your loan, then there are a variety of ways to end up with some kinds of tangible assets that would protect you somewhat with the downside.

Maybe we can agree to disagree because even though I concede that you are making some valid points, it still seems that you are overly complicating the more strict considerations that was presented by OP - in terms of using a loan to invest into bitcoin... which seems to be a both a valid question.. and also one in which any person can validly attempt to protect themselves against a wide variety of scenarios.... your set of scenarios does attempt to add additional protections, but it also adds more costs and more complications and even presumes that there is something lacking in investing in the anticipated price performance of bitcoin itself.

Furthermore, the fact that you are conceding that bitcoin is quite a capital intensive venture - in terms of mining - leads you to make further stretches involving GPU mining and including that bitcoin cannot be GPU mined, so in that regard, there is a kind of assumption that mining a shitcoin (and sure maybe you can revolve between shitcoins) is some how some kind of a prudent investment because it relates to bitcoin. .in the sense that it depends on bitcoin's success to be successful.. and if you really think through what you are proposing, you will likely appreciate that you are just adding additional layers of risk.. rather than really resolving anything by then proclaiming that you will end up with otherwise potentially valuable equipment that goes beyond door-stop status.,,

From my perspective, going on about this angle just seems to devolving too much away from this particular topic.. even though tangentially it can be described as related..

Yes, I probably deviated a little from the topic when I started writing about mining.
But this was done rather with the hope that before borrowing, a person will study the crypt better, at least understand the basic principles.
If you look at the question of borrowing to buy BTC or not, the key to answer for that question - at what interest will borrowed?
If inflation is above interest on the loan, then the move is risky, but logical.
If the loan interest is much higher than inflation, then you should take it with caution.
In any case, it is better to do a study for yourself at what stage of the market we are (bulls or bears) and what to do if the bear market comes suddenly and for a long time?
How you will repay the loan in that case?

It is clear that when everything grows, as in a good bull market, it is much easier to pay interest and debt.