Quote from: dogechode on March 28, 2014, 01:37:31 PM

The bigger problem (in my opinion) is that even if people WANT to comply, it may be difficult or impossible to do so.

well imho you could comply with say alt-coins there are sites where you cash out to usd same day say..would provide a paper trail
again imho big farms can prob keep track of how much usd btc per day they make and then they prob convert it all to usd .then
after the fact they may invest in btc but have to have an accounting trail

us puny types are not gonna go and keep track each day .0003888 btc and/or keep track of spending a mined bitcoin in 2009
that was made for like 1.11 and then buy a 600 buck tv and be required to pay capital gains on 598.89 usd...too cumbersome..
but then if 'big money banks or whatever" wanted to muck up bitcoin i can't think of a better way to cloud the waters then what the
IRS did a couple days ago

anyway my point is if you are supposed to 'mine' coin and it is like added to your 'gross income' and you more or less convert it
to cash right away (could use the web site for your transaction record) keep track of how much ...add it to your 'gross income"
as CASH for the year you'd prob be ok..on your normal income with your normal taxes as a side business
....if you converted it too bitcoin directly imho and wait a year 20% capital gains less then 1
year to cash it out i think it is 43% again the above is in the USA with latest IRS plug on what to do....well that seems
cumbersome and the temptation to 'hoard' the coin on speculation that btc is gonna go back up etc etc

mentally just go to a pool that mines the more profitable alt see how that goes on all this for a bit to cash out directly
btc equip imho are gonna be so short on lifespan this summer vs price...that alpha 16mh miner and the titan i have coming
yet hopefully as stated (now 250mh) by aug would show IRS it is a 'legit' business not a hobbs cash flow wise and
likely would make more then i would lose (again this is me ...and i want to mine for something to do....and it can
be modest return even thou more work...others likely have better ideas in this realm)

so just shoot it straight to cash like the IRS wants daily transaction record is their on the www you pool or cash out on...site...and do all the other
'business type things" you can by being legit ..right off inet costs,elec costs office costs equip costs training costs travel costs deductions
etc etc

end of the year you have more $$$ then you pay in taxes by 75% say of the gross total mined you are golden..sure 25% gone
but hey if the boat floats and you make a modest 'gross income' profit what the heck...need a break btc up/down sideways lately
makes me dizzy...go back to the basics "eat what you kill" day by day cashing out see how that is for my sanity in mining if lucky
i can find something to pump/dump on alts into next year.....(sorry cash flow is vicious don't ya know)

and i suppose if this does work with the titan and alpha asic alt-coin units..then somewhere around nov KNC will announce its
TITAN mining farm ...(I"m just postponing the inevitable don't ya know) what the heck its only money but a fair amount
above ROI for all the busness expenses i listed eventually would be nice!

so if i do mine this year i will look at it as "income" directly.....as an actual business like i'm selling shoes

i think you are ok in that manner...letting the IRS know about a hypothetical stash of 100000 btc you are supposed to pay
at the value to the day and min you mined them in 2009 till now so they can tax you on it....er not so much ..in my more
modest case the BTC can turn to dust in paper wallet form first (good to have a goal)

but to pay say 25% toward the "income" from mining then goes to BTC the day it was mined.....then you have to keep track of that
and the cost that day of .00008888 etc ..then end of 1 year you can convert the bitcoin for the joy of 20% capital gains (hopefully grew)
by that time...screw that don't need the mental pressure ....just mine alts ...hopefully run the equip longer and play

again i'm wrong i'll be chasing down ant-miners at a very resaonable price or some such if calcs work this sujmmer

screw it...cash out immediately the day you mine it...no capital gains.....use all legit business deductions...if you end up with 5-9k
more gross $$$ at the end of the tax year and after taxes your are fine legit and golden to the IRS
and like in my case you have to pay 30% on that money state and fed taxes...sucks but worth a shot even if i don't quite make
ROI (i bore easy need a hobby)

what the heck it is an income stream

myself i've never touched a BTC to spend I"ve made so i'm gonna sit this bitcoin mining out till this is resolved and just do the
above........it is what it is....(of course they take btc in germany i could have a VERY NICE vacation heh Wink

if i'm incorrect and this is resolved before summer there will likely be plenty of T1 miners about at a reasonable non-pre-order
price i can go back to hoarding btc with the old 20% capital gains in mind

why not do this with BTC equip? ....(single ltc asic) the ltc asic MAY last with elec use into next year (i'm sure i can mine something
in alt at 800watt power supply use for a titan.) and the beast will plod along much longer then a neptune imho competeting
against knc and others large GH farms already nearing completion ..irregardless of the btc price dump here lately

with deductions for elec a/c equip etc ...i will LIKELY make cash flow and get equip ROI but it will be very modest...likely back to
hobby mode...but want to mine...and an't prob ever gonna be able to mine a legit machine again when the next batch fall comes
around and they have creeped up to 25k or some such ....and knc annoucing its giant TITAN mining farm in the fall..sigh

so back to playing/hobby (why i orig got my jupiter from knc when it was 150gh a coin ..expected 6-7 months to pay it off..and
maybe cash flow my home utils incl the elec for the miner for the next 8-9 months) so it goes ...stuff to do..

so sitting on BTC waiting using this modest miner project "not to go crazy" got to do something and i don't want a bass boat!

as always i am likely very wrong on all this consider doing the opposite for best results

Searing

Quote from: Holliday on March 28, 2014, 02:38:30 PM

Quote from: dogechode on March 28, 2014, 02:17:35 PM

Quote from: bbeagle on March 28, 2014, 02:11:53 PM

This is EXACTLY what day traders of stocks do. They have to calculate each buy and sell (which they do hundreds of times a day) and report it all at the end of the year.

The difference is your stock broker sends you documentation of your trades and cost basis (the good ones were already doing this years ago, I believe now there is some law requiring it.) E*Trade sends me a document and I give it to my accountant, it's really not that difficult or time intensive.

Documentation of your trades exist in the block chain, cost basis is easy enough to add (I expect software for that will soon exist).

Exchange users should start demanding that their exchange provides them with this information.

Many are acting like it's impossible to keep decent records when it's not. Bitcoin makes it easier than most things thanks to the block chain. It's an unalterable record ffs!

it is the transactions of the merchant etc etc the cumbersome nature of all this in the USA and IRS rules....other countries no problem (envy)

i think it will really depress the price of the coin and the number of miners will go down in usa big time

why deal with all this gross income stuff for mining when you can just buy bitcoin and pay 20% capital gains on it after 1 year...guess we will end up with
leaving mining to China Sweden Canada etc

yeah the neg press and roadblocks are epic with the clusterf***k as it exists now

likely summer it will be just all coins BTC pay 20% capital gains after 1 year.but still next 3 months is gonna be FUD IMHO

again i know zip but my take/bet on stuff and or process or whatever you want to call what the hell i'm doing Wink

just want to mine
before the whole thing goes virtual mining or speculation seems the trend

as always don't know zip my take on this from a "play with a miner i can get and make $$$ ROI point of view" not the most logical direction

Searing