Quote from: paxmao on Today at 11:11:16 AM

Quote from: Tash on Today at 06:30:21 AM

Quote from: paxmao on March 20, 2022, 07:01:08 PM

There is plenty of history on the formation of any estate, and Ukraine is no different. In modern times, it is the people that live in a region or country that have the right to decide their future and their organisation.
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Exactly and the people of Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic have decided they want have anything to do with Ukraine.
You nailed it.

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That is quite far from the truth I am afraid. Putin has been supporting a certain group but the local support is nil. Who would like to live under Putin's despotic and inhuman rule?

On Mariupol... it seems that Putin could enter the city. The obvious problem is that there is no longer a city in there, he has conquered a flat plain full of rubble, dead and hungry people. He has simply flattened it and that only leaves ill will and hate. I guess that is not an immediate problem for Putin, yet controlling a territory that is hostile is a costly effort, so this "victory" may become his new Afghanistan, but hey, feel free to consider it a victory if it happens.

Again, your trolling and citing of propaganda simply sucks. Your reputation in the forum is being permanently damaged, but hey, call it a victory for you if you want.

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 03:52:07 AM

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Now we come to the fun part, what happens next. The way i see it is either west manages to collapse Russia with soft power for the second time (but now has to deal with China next), or diplomats totally miscalculated and fucked up big time, giving cookies to Ukraine just went too far too fast, it cornered Russia, so west looses all leverage over Russia, Europe looses a trade partner and once again gets a totalitarian regime next door with it's gloves off. On top of that it'll have no option but to align itself with another totalitarian regime, China. That has potential for a change in a world order, that's why now everyone is watching China

There is no fun part in all this. Europe will not "align" with China much more that already was. This war has shown how totalitarian regimes need to always be considered a risk.

What is clear is that Europe may actually create a real army of its own. The problem with armies, particularly if large, is that they tend to justify their cost creating wars.

That is why they have the own countries, they don't want Putin, they want away from Ukraine govenment terror.
Fast majority of Ukraine history Donesk region has not been part of Ukraine anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People's_Republic
https://web.archive.org/web/20220224051432/http://gorod-donetsk.com/
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_People's_Republic
https://glava-lnr.su/