Quote from: n0nce on April 05, 2022, 07:03:43 PM

Quote from: m2017 on April 05, 2022, 06:12:06 PM

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On first thought, I really like the idea; it allows to have more compact backups and even combine two backups on one screw.
However, I personally always value legibility over size / anything else. This also applies to stuff like custom crypto (shuffling words, ...) or super strong passphrases. That's because I am convinced the risk of losing funds due to unrecoverable backups is much higher than losing funds by being attacked.
In this context, I think paying a few cents more and getting enough hardware to write down all words in full, is definitely going to be worth it.

Each of us can pursue different goals, and in this case, for some, legibility /readability will be important, for others, compact storage. The choice of method for preserving a seed-pharse
will depend on the goals pursued by each individual.

I understand your concerns about the possible loss of backup data and therefore I suggest that need to make several copies of it.

Quote from: n0nce on April 05, 2022, 07:03:43 PM

For instance, you will need to either number (but that takes up more space) every 4-letter 'word slice' or you'll have to remember / mark somehow for each washer which is the first, second, third and fourth word. If you do it like myself or fillippone, you will have one word per side and one number per side, so it's easy and clear to read.

I mentioned this above, but thanks for expanding my vision with your comment.

Quote from: m2017 on April 04, 2022, 02:55:50 PM

With this mini-experiment, I want to clearly show that 4 words can be applied to 1 washer. 2 on one side and 2 on the back. If reduce the number of letters to 4 (this is enough to identify the desired right word and restore seed-phrase). There is still space for numbering the puck so as not to make a mistake with the word order.

Quote from: n0nce on April 05, 2022, 07:03:43 PM

Keep in mind that these backups are supposed to withstand extreme conditions, under which a letter may become indecipherable. In such a situation, you'll be happy that you wrote down more than the minimum required 4 letters per word. Wink

I don't think that extreme conditions will affect the readability of the text, because the washers fit snugly together and the construction looks solid and reliable. You need to make a lot of effort and pursue the specific goal of spoiling the text in order to be able to do this.

Quote from: n0nce on April 05, 2022, 07:03:43 PM

It could be viable as a secondary backup, especially for being able to store a few wallets' seeds in one small convenient location, with separate, 'full backups' somewhere else. Like, if you have to move somewhere for a while or something, I get it that carrying multiple of my backups will quickly get heavy.

I'm also more inclined towards having a duplicate of the same seed-pharse and stored in completely different locations. The short version of the text is in easy and immediate accessibility, the full version is in a safe and hard-to-reach place.

Quote from: fillippone on April 05, 2022, 08:36:00 PM

Fully agree with the above statement.
There is no point saving a few centimeter printing both side of the washers, risking that any mishap to the backup make the seed unreadable.
I prefer reliability over convenience, in this specific case.

Your point of view is clear. But you can't help but agree that putting text on both sides of the washer will not affect the quality and safety of the seed-phrase in any way. Because the thickness of the washer allows to apply text in this way without any damage, and this will positively affect compactness. Noticeable advantage.

Quote from: Welsh on April 05, 2022, 10:19:41 PM

I've also been thinking about employing this technique for other non related Bitcoin things, such as passwords, obviously randomly generated passwords. Might be more secure than a password manager since the weakness there is your master password, and hardware key if you've got one. The thing is the capsule is much easier to disguise, and doesn't initially scream like your hiding something, although I can also think of other ways of concealing washers quite innocently.

Any important information (the text is easily divided into numbered washers) can be stored using such storage. Ways to hide washerss are only limited by the man's imagination. For example, you can use washers for its intended purpose (assembly of products, structures or decorative elements) by putting text on the inside. Who would ever think to check every detail that caught their eye, what is on its inside?