Quote from: LTU_btc on April 08, 2022, 11:18:52 PM

Quote from: be.open on April 08, 2022, 12:33:58 PM

I think this is another provocation by Ukraine under a false flag, shortly after Bucha. Russia does not have Tochka-U missiles in service, and in the direction of the wreckage, it flew in from the southwest, from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

I didn't expected to hear something different from you. Ok, let's debunk it:
1. Russian forces used Tochka-U in military training in Belarus just before war in Ukraine:
https://rg.ru/2022/02/15/na-ucheniiah-v-belarusi-otrabatyvaiut-puski-raket-i-podderzhku-oboroniaiushchihsia-vojsk.html
It's also possibe that attack was made using Belarus owned Tochka-U, but I don't think that it change something.

The Belarusians fired their Tochka-U missiles at the joint exercises, it's true. The flight range of Tochka-U is 120 km, it will not fly from the territory of Belarus to Kramatorsk. Tochka-U is a good powerful missile, but obsolete, rather slow, and it flies along a ballistic trajectory, although it can steer a little towards the target, for example, to compensate for gusts of wind. If it was not shot down (and the rocket in Kramatorsk worked normally), then by the location of the tail section relative to the epicenter of the impact, it is easy to determine where it came from. Moreover, on the tail section there is a serial number of the missile, by which you can accurately determine which military unit it was in service with. You are not interested in such trifles when you are sure in advance that you are right, right?

Quote from: LTU_btc on April 08, 2022, 11:18:52 PM

2. You're saying that it flew from southwest, but there is reports and video taht Tochka-U was released from Shakhtarsk direction, which is controlled by Russia:
https://t.me/itsdonetsk/11817

According to some characteristic features of this launch, such as one rocket taking off before the second from one point, I can assume that Iskander-K is operating in this video, it has a dual launcher. Tochka-U usually also work in pairs, but from two different installations and with a synchronous start.

Quote from: LTU_btc on April 08, 2022, 11:18:52 PM

3. Kramatorsk station was hited on 10:30 AM local time, but on Russian media there was message about it on 10:25 AM local time. Interesting that tweet was made via TweetDeck - tool used to make scheduled tweets:
https://twitter.com/rianru/status/1512345886268997632
4. Day before this attack on one pro-Russian Telegram channel there was post for people who are leaving Kramatorsk, Slovyansk and near cities suggesting to avoid railway transport:
https://imgur.com/TVZMOlu

I don't comment on conspiracy theories. There are easier ways to determine the culprit of what happened - for example, check the serial numbers on the tail of the rocket or analyze its trajectory.

Quote from: LTU_btc on April 08, 2022, 11:18:52 PM

And after all, I don't see why Ukraine would need to kill their own citizens, especially in such expensive way - they don't have that much Tochka-U missiles.

What you are right about is that this is indeed one of the last Tochka-U missiles that were at the disposal of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Ukraine does not produce these missiles and finishes the remnants of the legacy from the USSR with an expired shelf life of at least 10 years. In the USSR, rockets were made to last, so they still work.

And the reasons for provocations under a false flag are very simple - Ukraine needs to continue to keep the attention of the world community at all costs, so that there are new deliveries of weapons and financial assistance from the West, and the West's sanctions pressure on Russia intensifies, even if it already hurts the West itself.