Quote from: slackovic on April 08, 2022, 04:59:05 AM

Quote from: franky1 on April 08, 2022, 04:52:46 AM

1. they didnt drop the fee..
they instead made old transaction formats 4X more expensive. here its in the code. its a 4X increase of legacy
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/consensus/consensus.h#L21
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/623745ca74cf3f54b474dac106f5802b7929503f/src/consensus/validation.h#L143
see it says *4

also fee's in 2009-17 were sub 1cent-10cents.. fee's are now $1-$3

note the flatline upto 2017.. and then the large ups and downs after segwit

Hm... Didn't see it like that. But one of the benefits of SegWit was to make it possible to fit more transactions into one block. Shouldn't that cause transaction fees to be lower? Maybe now there's simply more transactions that before and that's the reason for the transaction fee increase you are mentioning.

there are not more transactions though

the promises of the devs adding segwit were false promises trying to get people not to grow bitcoin but to be lulled into activating a new TX feature, which sole purpose was to make locking up transactions possible so people can then be off-ramped to other networks under the new regime of telling people that bittcoin should not be used more often but less often and people should stop using bitcoin and instead shift value over to other networks

Quote from: 1miau on Today at 09:20:37 PM

While I appreciate your dedicated time to reply here, I need to say that things are a bit more complex than outlined in your post. We just don't know yet how fees will work out and people have already said in the past (around 2017/2018) that Bitcoin will be impossible to use because of high fees.
Well...
What happened?
Nothing like that. Fees are cheaper than ever most of the last 5 years.

Quote from: franky1 on April 08, 2022, 04:05:55 AM

segwit increased TPS... WHEN?
moving upto 2017 bitcoin had the capacity of upto 4200 tx, and was in reality moving upto ~2500 average.. then segwit came in. and.............. 5 years later.. hmm.. flatline

The number of transactions that have happened is not a proof that the capacity didn't increase.
In fact, SegWit reduced network congestion and that's also a reason why we still have low fees of 0.10 cent today. There *could* be more transactions while tx fees will remain low due to SegWit / Lightning.

Quote from: franky1 on April 08, 2022, 04:52:46 AM

Quote from: slackovic on April 08, 2022, 04:35:41 AM

Yeah, I remember how SegWit dropped the transaction prices and I guess something similar will have to be created so that more transactions fits into one block. Then maybe the block reward payed only by a transaction fee will be enough.

I didn't think that fiat will be worth anything in 120 years. I just made an example how would that look today in fiat value. But I guess one of the solutions is layer2 for small transactions. I'd write "we will see" but I guess we won't. Maybe our kids will see Grin

1. they didnt drop the fee..
they instead made old transaction formats 4X more expensive. here its in the code. its a 4X increase of legacy
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/consensus/consensus.h#L21
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/623745ca74cf3f54b474dac106f5802b7929503f/src/consensus/validation.h#L143
see it says *4

imagine paypal had a 20cent fee per payment. and promised a 4x fee discount if people use paypal+.. then you find out what they actually done was make regular paypal initially 80cents to say that paypal+ is 4x cheaper (20cents).. and then weeks later they removed the fee formula that made prices 20cents and made it so paypal+ was $1-$3 average. meaning regular paypal(legacy) was $4-$16

What?

Legacy transactions didn't become 4x more expensive because SegWit was introduced?
Legacy transactions are just more expensive compared to SegWit transactions because SegWit transactions are cheaper because SegWit transaction have less block weight than legacy transactions.

Spinning this around that legacy transactions are now 4x more expensive does not make any sense...
In general, even legacy Transactions are benefiting from SegWit because it's much more unlikely to have a congested network.

Quote from: franky1 on April 08, 2022, 04:52:46 AM

also fee's in 2009-17 were sub 1cent-10cents.. fee's are now $1-$3

You can still get transactions of around 0.10$, I don't see a problem... Huh

Even by using a legacy address, you can get close to 0.10$ fees...

Quote from: slackovic on April 08, 2022, 04:59:05 AM

But one of the benefits of SegWit was to make it possible to fit more transactions into one block. Shouldn't that cause transaction fees to be lower?

Exactly, SegWit reduces network congestion because more tx can be fitted into one block. Less network congestion = periods of high fees are less likely

THERE ARE NOT MORE TRANSACTIONS.. FEES ARE NOT CHEAPER

please step away from listening to the propaganda idiots that fame up segwit and their altnet solutions they want people to move over to. and instead look at the actual numbers of actual charts. actual code

i showed you both the charts of fees and transactions per block.. and both are not what you think.. both actually show that fees are higher and that transactions have stopped growing and stagnated at about ~2,500tx per lock