Quote from: paxmao on April 18, 2022, 10:43:43 PM

Quote from: Toughit on April 18, 2022, 05:21:05 PM

What is the definition of a Nazi as used in the postings in this thread?

I admit to only 'lightly' know a Hitler type Nazi, but surely that has changed in 80 years?

(although the portable crematoriums used in Ukraine by the Russians gives me pause to think)

According to the Kremlin Trolls here, anything that gets hit by Putin's weaponry. For example, a maternity hospital is hit = it was full of Nazis. Civilians on a mass grave? nope, Nazis. Troops defending their country, nope, Nazis.

It is just a excuse, not a real reason for the war whatsoever. Putin could not care less about the ideology of his victims.

Quote from: tvbcof on April 18, 2022, 06:45:26 AM

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Oh, I see:

Steel mill Azov:

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As said, whatever their reasons, they are the troops that are less likely to give in.

Sure, we all know that Putin would not be attacking Mariupol if it were defended by someone else, right??. As far as I am concerned, the "nazi" argument is irrelevant for this war but if you want to open that box, let's go:

- Hitler reached power being voted and then used the estate power to kill and ban his political enemies.
- Hitler assumed Arian supremacy as a principle.
- Hitler impeded free speech and incarcerated anyone who spoke against.
- Hitler looked for an enemy to blame for Germany's problems (Jews).
- Hitler used the army to invade his neighbours, mostly pacific ones.
- Hitler tried to impose his despotic model on the conquered, using dummies (e.g. French gov in Vichy).
- Hitler threated democracies and ended up in conflict with France, US, UK.

Now, change Hitler for Putin, Arian for Russian, Germany for Russia, Vichy for Belorussia and, curiously, Jews for Nazis and you will see who is actually the Nazi here.

Quote from: suchmoon on April 17, 2022, 09:49:42 PM

Quote from: paxmao on April 17, 2022, 08:10:15 PM

a) The US intelligence service is collaborating with Ukraine to a very large extent, even when planning strategies and tactics.
b) The US intelligence service has in-depth understanding of the naval defence systems on Russian Navy and seems to have analysed their weaknesses perfectly.
c) Putin cannot put any short of faith in a sea launched attack or support.
d) The real effectiveness of the Russian fleet may be well below what Putin generals are counting on, not just on this particular case.

Don't forget the Ukrainian postal service. They must have had a hand in this, timed it perfectly as a promotion for the postal stamp - can't be a coincidence Grin

Seriously though, the ship was built in Ukraine and its defensive stuff is similar to the ground systems used by Ukraine (e.g. C300) so I wouldn't overestimate the US "help"... albeit some satellite and Global Hawk surveillance probably helped.

Edit - some unconfirmed pictures are showing up on twitface: https://twitter.com/osinttechnical

Not that there was any doubt about the "storm" and "waves" that sank it but yeah... there is no storm. Just cloudy.

The ship was effectively assembled in Ukraine yes - I can put a SIM card in a cell phone (in most anyway), but I do not know the details of any of them and, after a couple of Google updates (in this case, RF updates), I am certainly completely unaware of what may be happening inside.

There are three systems of defence, four against planes. These include the one you mention that is ineffective for low altitude (50 feet) flying missiles, however the second set of missiles and the Gatling guns were also voided.

It is anything but easy to sink a Cruise the way it has happened. The way the defences were penetrated requires an in depth knowledge of their behaviour, knowledge of the precise location, knowledge of the best moment to attack and how. As said, I have no proof, but I do not think I am putting forward a conspiracy theory, just saying that Ukraine is getting a level of intel and support that goes beyond passing all the info from the AWACS that are flying continuously in all OTAN borders.

I guess that the new Russian habitat for coralline species recently created is the only "proof" I can offer, but certainly a high level of intel coming from the US on this precise strike seems very likely.

Quote from: tvbcof on April 18, 2022, 06:45:26 AM

Quote from: paxmao on April 17, 2022, 09:27:43 PM

Please, do not get me wrong, these people are not super-human, they die and need food and water, but they are quite peculiar in terms of their moral and will to fight. The longer they pin the Russian army, the more chances Ukraine has to use the West's aid.

Lol. I hope if I ever get 'pinned down' in combat it is in the way Azov and associated mercenaries pinned down the Chechens in Mariupol.

I'm guessing that for to long the 'defenders' believed the stories about a Ukrainian breakthrough to save their asses, and probably thought that with the Western mercenaries among them, the West would somehow come to the rescue. The joke is on them because the only people who would like to see them dead more than Russia would be Zelenski and their Jewish oligarch sponsors (edit: and U.S. state department Jews such as Victoria Nudelman-Kagan) who have been paying them for a decade for just this day.

Takes a lot of 'character' to justify the use of human shields just to maybe give a little more time for Western weapons to come in to some other part of the country. I will give you that.

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I have not justified the use of human shields. I have not seen evidence of human shields being used. I have seem evidence of Putin's army shelling heavily populated areas. Perhaps the chances of civils being there would be less if more could be safely evacuated - for avoidance of doubt, that does not mean being ~~deported~~ evacuated to Russia.

Putin's troops that are being used in Mariupol are the ones not being used somewhere else. They are not "pinned" if you would rather have it worded differently, but they certainly cannot leave.

Zelensky said publicly weeks ago that they could not help the troops in Mariupol - it does not get any clearer than that.

On regards to financing, your statement looks like a poker player accusing other's of cheating better than himself.

Quote from: Veleor on April 18, 2022, 04:37:01 PM

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Nothing can justify violence, and civilians suffer in every war, but there should be strong grounds for saying that Russian troops are purposefully killing Ukrainian civilians, literally engaging in genocide.
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Totally biased. I do not think there are proofs of widespread genocide, but attacks on civilians, summary executions and mass graves are clear and documented. Only the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales denies it at this point.

Quote from: Veleor on April 18, 2022, 04:37:01 PM

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On March 25, 2022, Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy told reporters: "At present, the Ukrainian air force and air defense system have been almost completely destroyed. The country's naval forces have ceased to exist".
Further in the same article, the number of destroyed and remaining Ukrainian military equipment is given:

Code:

"The Russian military destroyed [...] 112 out of 152 aircraft, 75 helicopters out of 149,
148 air defense systems S-300 and Buk M1 out of 180 [...]"

I see, again the usual sources. Seriously, how do you pretend to question information by using as source from Putin's military chief psycho? Has the Dark Humour Department being preparing your answers again?

Quote from: Veleor on April 18, 2022, 04:37:01 PM

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Apparently, you have reason to be sarcastic on this topic if you have studied the materials presented by the Russian side and if you are a professional infectious disease specialist in order to completely eliminate the bacteriological threat from that 30 labs in Ukraine. Can you share your expert opinion in order to break the arguments of the Russian side on this issue once and for all?
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Again, you base your answer in the "poster not knowing enough" and citing sources from the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales - Pigeon surveillance section.

All there is here is a poorly elaborated lie aiming to link Ukraine with bioweapons. It is so incredible that I can only thank you again for helping the Ukrainian cause.

Quote from: Veleor on April 18, 2022, 04:37:01 PM

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According to the French war reporter Anne-Laure Bonnel during an interview with a French TV channel, it was not Russia, but the Ukrainian government that bombed its own population in the Donbass.

Code:

The Kiev government has bombarded the Russian-speaking population.

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Even Pentagon spokesman John Kirby doesn't know the exact reason why the Moscow cruiser sank.

This is probably the only thing I could believe. I mean, the bit on Ukraine shelling the Donbas, not that Putin's psychos did not do it as well or the fact that the bombs were somehow language selective.

I could even believe Kirby except for a little detail - he says he does not understand "why Russia would deny it". I can certainly figure out why.

Anyway, there are some pictures out today. I will wait for analysts to put forward opinions and see if they are validated.

Quote from: Hetadrop on April 18, 2022, 05:12:57 PM

Quote from: Veleor on April 18, 2022, 04:37:01 PM

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I have a very bad news for you but Putin has officially hired Nazis to fight for him long ago.

A very famous Nazi group of Russia's Troops are German Nazi entrepreneurs participating in Putins wars again and again. It's Wagner group and was involved already in Syria to keep Despot Assad in power and Putin hired Wagner's troops. Wagner's Nazi troops are officially emplayed by Russian govt.
CEO of Wagner group is currently Dmitriy Utkin, a Russian Nazi: https://www.italy24news.com/world/391586.html

Quote

In 2022 images surfaced of Utkin purportedly showing Waffen SS collar tab and Reichsadler Eagle tattoos on his collar and chest. Additionally, several prominent members of the Wagner group have been photographed or recorded in Nazi uniforms or taking part in re-enactments of WWII events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

You can look at Google pictures, Dmitriy Utkin, a russian Nazi, is glorifying german Nazi symbolism and ideology.

Yes, Nazis are officially hired by Putin's govt. Roll Eyes

Oh... I suggest to the Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales a response to that in the lines of "these are Russian Patriots fighting Nazis around the world" they are "Russperheroes" but witht the underwear inside the pants.

This guy should go to Ukraine himself instead of sending the young Russians to die. He's got the pants, why is he waiting to put on the shirt as well?

After this war is over, Ukrainians need to send death squads to kill these "Russian heroes", especially those who participated in terrorist activities in Bucha, Mariupol, etc. These motherfuckers need to pay.