Quote from: Branko on Today at 06:57:07 AM

Quote from: paxmao on April 28, 2022, 09:26:29 PM

NATO or US soldiers are not involved as such (thanks to suchmoon for stating the obvious), some of them have left their countries to fight in Ukraine. In fact, some of them are now deserters in their own countries because they left their countries' armies without permission.

That's usual way how you conduct covert operations...government officially can't be blamed for involvement, but of course
soldiers, UK government, and even Russia, all know UK government sent them. Just to be honest here, everyone do it the
same way, it fools only domestic populations (and not even all of them) or people who want to be fooled

Nah, this is just a vague attempt of making things look something they are not.

The key point is that they do not carry heavy weaponry or are supported by the NATO structure and logistics. Do a few volunteers with light weapons make a real difference? Nah... Even in the case they were actually agents or some short of advisor, is mostly a moral support. A different thing would be to send a contingent of NATO troops with full fighting capabilities and arms (e.g. fighter pilots, artillery brigades,...) - that would be an involvement.

Speaking of which: It is a different thing to basically have a branch of Putin's army under a false flag and arguing that "the residents voted XYZ". It took years to hear from Putin's own voice that there were people in the area "dealing with military matters".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_separatist_forces_in_Donbas

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It is widely believed that the separatists are supported by the Russian Armed Forces.[13] Ukraine, the United States, and some analysts consider 1st and 2nd Army Corps to be Russian formations under the command of the 8th Combined Arms Army,[14][15][16][17] which was formed in 2017 in Novocherkassk, Rostov oblast. Although the Russian government often denies direct involvement, saying their soldiers were there voluntarily and not under orders, some of them have been captured with documents that said otherwise.

This is in 2017: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/12054164/Vladimir-Putins-annual-press-conference-2015-live.html

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Vladimir Putin admits: Russian troops 'were in Ukraine'

- The Telegraph

This is Putin, 2016:

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When we were forced, I want to stress, forced to defend the Russian-speaking population in the Donbass, ...

Obviously, that is recognising intervention, in 2016, years ago.

Now, Putin has never recognised there is actually a full corps dependant on the Russian Army, and that is never going to happen. There are several more references and news of Tanks and heavy artillery passing from Russia to the Donbas areas. Of course, you will not find a selfie of a Russian guy or anything like that saying "I am invading Ukraine mom", because Putin has denied that he is effectively waging war, but you can as yourself the question "who is to profit" and

Where did the separatists get the funding for weapons on a region that is particularly poor, has no significant resources to sell and no significant economy to pay for them? There is only one answer.