Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 05:55:38 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 04:52:21 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:36:31 PM

[edited out]

You got it all wrong. I don't have presumptions that bitcoin is either not sufficiently holding value or that bitcoin has value on paper only.

All I am doing here is describing the fact that bitcoin doesn't exist, that is, that bitcoin is just a name, while the bitcoin system is a scam system.

That sounds like a distinction without a difference. You try to make it seem that you are creatively genius, but in the end, we already know that a whole practice has been built around BTC and bitcoin has shown itself to be a paradigm shifting invention that causes various dynamics through out the world to have to be reframed...

You can ignore it and downplay it to your peril.. hopefully there are not too many people who follow such reality ignoring fantasy proposition.

Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 04:52:21 PM

You can prove this by asking people that invested in the bitcoin system if they are able to benefit from within the system. In all investment systems that are legit, the investors are able to benefit from within these systems. On the other hand, in all investment systems that are scam, people are not able to benefit in that way. That's obviously because there's no value, no economic resources in such systems.

First you are creating a false framework, and second, benefits from bitcoin can be measured in various ways within various bitcoin systems, and also the longer that bitcoin exists, the more that bitcoin touches upon a variety of systems that are somewhat outside of it (or historically had been outside of it).. So benefits from bitcoin can increasingly be measured through its various interactions with a larger and larger number of systems that may have had little to no connection with anything like bitcoin.

Maybe another aspect of your seemingly false framework is trying to too strictly categorize bitcoin, and surely bitcoin had a bit of an invention with the publication of the October 31, 2008 white paper and also with its underlying software that started running on January 3, 2009... but also, bitcoin was not invented out of thin air, but instead was built upon quite a few concepts that had been theorized, explored, attempted and built upon prior to bitcoin's being named in its 2008 white paper.

Of course, there seems to be some innovative ways that already existing concepts were put together in bitcoin which causes some of that to have been potentially inventions or discoveries rather than prior work. Another dynamic is that bitcoin has not remained stagnant since its 2008 announcement and its 2009 beginning to run, but there have been systems built within bitcoin and around bitcoin, proposals made, rejected and adopted, and various kinds of learning is ongoing - even if arguments can be made that bitcoin has been running since 2009 - it has tended to serve as an example of a project that runs like a plane in flight and continues to fly while being built upon.

Ignore, poo-poo and denigrate bitcoin to your peril - and surely perhaps even the various shitcoins, associated projects/promotionals, proposals (even the rejected ones) and even attack vehicles can serve as learning mechanisms for people considering bitcoin and ways to potentially learn, employ or build upon bitcoin.

Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 04:52:21 PM

As you can see, I am stating simple facts.

Well maybe your simple facts are too simple since they seem to be attempting to proclaim either a kind of reality that does not exist or some kind of aspect of the world that you would like to believe does not exist by your mere wishing it away (or proclaiming to ignore it while creating threads about what you are proclaiming to ignore).

Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 04:52:21 PM

You can preach all day long about bitcoin's value, but the very fact that not a single holder in the bitcoin system is able to benefit from within this system is an indisputable empirical proof that your preaching is without basis in reality.

Surely, you can label some of us (including yours truly) as preaching when the fact of the matter is more likely that we are attempting to engage in good faith descriptions of a world that we consider to be more accurate than your nonsenses. Of course, not everyone acts in good faith when they engage in dialogues with others, and you seem to be falling into a kind of disingenuine bad faith and misleading camp rather than really identifying some kind of empirical truth that needs to be better fleshed out.

Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 04:52:21 PM

In the bitcoin system there's zero value. And bitcoin doesn't exist. The only purpose of the whole thing is to trick people out of their money.

The above set of ideas (to the extent that they could be considered as ideas rather than gobble-dee-gook inconsistent assertions?) hardly makes any sense.

For example, I am not much of a proponent of various shitcoins, but even I am going to concede that shitcoins have value, even if they are used to scam people.

Bitcoin is in another category.. but if you would like to lump bitcoin in with various kinds of shitcoins and then to consider the whole field as valueless, you would be both empirically and logically wrong on that front too.

You're trying to deny facts with words. It's is not important what you or other people see in the bitcoin system or say about it. That's just perception and conepts - products of imagination. What is important is the fact that once people invested into this system, they can't get anything out of the system, except if someone enters into it.

Now, thell me, how's that possible if there's value in the system? Just try to think about it for a moment. All that electricity invested into the system, all the goods, services, dollars... but literally nothing can be taken out without someone voluntarily entering into the system. So, how that possible if there's value in the system? Or to put it another way: where's the value that you see or preach about, except in your imagination?