Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 20, 2022, 09:43:19 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on May 20, 2022, 06:57:47 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 20, 2022, 05:55:38 PM

[edited out]

You're trying to deny facts with words.

Mostly, I have been trying to be descriptive rather than prescriptive, so you can call it whatever you like.. You seem to be the one who is failing/refusing to deal with actual facts... which also likely leads you into bad logic too.. but maybe it does not matter so much if your logic is good or bad if you yourself continue to consider that something is not real merely because it includes seemingly intangible characteristics... there are a lot of things that are real in the world that partially or wholly include or involve intangibles.

Maybe only a toddler has NOT developed a brain that is able to utilize various aspects of abstract thinking and to appreciate that a variety of real things exist in the world even when they are not in a physically tangible form in front of their ability to sense them with one of the 5 senses or even if you are so sensorially alert as to consider that there are more than 5 senses.. some theories of 21 senses.. .. .

Quote from: Snowshow on May 20, 2022, 06:57:47 PM

It's is not important what you or other people see in the bitcoin system or say about it.

Well it is important if various ideas are communicated between people, and sometimes certain kinds of phenomena, practices, procedures become accepted or commonly known.

So surely there will be differing levels of understanding that people have in terms of how they might put something to use or feel that they are affected by it, and yes there are likely going to be some people who either do not understand various aspects or they just remain outsiders because they refuse to accept or understand some real phenomena that exists in the world and is shared amongst other people.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 20, 2022, 06:57:47 PM

That's just perception and conepts - products of imagination. What is important is the fact that once people invested into this system, they can't get anything out of the system, except if someone enters into it.

It's possible that you could be correct in some ways that parties need to understand the medium of exchange, but you are tending towards discussion this matter in so many absolutes that even I can think of examples in which you are wrong too...

So for example, people can benefit from some systems without realizing that they are benefiting from it.
Sometimes infrastructure can be built and people can benefit from those systems. Sometimes ways of interacting can be established in which every time you see a person on the street you do not try to kill them, and you do not realize that you are benefiting from that.

Let's say for example, you live in an area that does not naturally have potable water, yet either you receive deliveries of potable water on a regular basis and you do not even know that the water is being delivered to your location.. In your mind, you believe that the potable water naturally exists in the location that you tap into it, and you had not known anything else in your existence and you did not involve yourself in consenting to such delivery system, but you live your whole life receiving the delivered water.

I could provide other examples to show that you are describing such need to consent or know about your benefits or interactions with a positive system with too much absolutism.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 20, 2022, 06:57:47 PM

Now, thell me, how's that possible if there's value in the system?

I already gave examples. You seem to be the one who both lacks imagination and also has the burden to prove that what you say is true.., because as far as I can see, you seem to have gone too far down the imagination road.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 20, 2022, 06:57:47 PM

Just try to think about it for a moment.

Already thought about it. It is not as difficult or dramatic as you are making it out to be in your level of seeming ongoing wrongness.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 20, 2022, 06:57:47 PM

All that electricity invested into the system, all the goods, services, dollars... but literally nothing can be taken out without someone voluntarily entering into the system. So, how that possible if there's value in the system? Or to put it another way: where's the value that you see or preach about, except in your imagination?

Well, it seems to me that any new invention both has the potential to enhance existing systems and to move value around within existing systems, but it also has potentials to increase new value in ways that might not have had been previously imaginable under the old system. Sure, the value might not be unilateral and without trade offs, but we can study the existence of a lot of systems that both brought value but also increased the total size of the value pie - whether we are referring to inventions like the wheel, the automobile, electricity, the internet, the refrigerator, and bitcoin ends up having several of its own ways of both creating efficiencies but also increasing possible values or ways of interacting that increases value.

Just take the car, for example, yeah more bugs were killed and roads were built that changed aspects of the environment, but it also allowed for movement of people and goods that allowed for improvements in society.. or maybe split the family apart because people were no longer stuck living in smaller geographical area.. You can spin the positives and negatives and maybe even proclaim that the car caused net negatives, just like you could do the same with bitcoin, yet you still seem to be in denial if you just conclusorily proclaim that bitcoin has no value... which surely seems to be your lame-ass perspective and position.

WOW, just... WOW. You're capable of writing all that text and actually say nothing. Unbelievable. So, there are supposedly more than 18,000,000 of valuable coins or tokens in the system, a half a trillion dollars worth of assets, and yet, all the people that are holding that assets, are unable to even eat an apple or put a single dollar into a pocket if someone doesn't voluntarily enter the bitcoin system. And all you do in response to this important fact is writing a wall of text that completely ignores it. Crazy. And you do all that just because you are not willing to admit that some anonymous guy, or group of people, scammed you. You rather deny pure and somple facts instead of just admitting that these anonymous people invented a perfect system for scamming people out of their money and other assets. What is mind boggling in this whole situation is how fanatically you holders defend those that scammed you. Not only that, but you praise them as if they were heroes, or even deity. I guess it's some kind of Stockholm syndrome.