Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 23, 2022, 03:02:30 PM

[edited out]

You don't have to accept anything. You just have to answer where's value in the bitcoin system if not a single bitcoin holder can return their investment without the value brought by new investors.

Bullshit.

You already got my response... multiple times... so stop telling me what to do over and over, when I already responded to the extent that I am going to respond. Been there done that.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

Because, you constantly preach about bitcoin's value, or bitcoin did this, bitcoin did that. Bitcoin is just an evidence that people invested into the system, and has, for e.g., this form: "0.123 BTC". If they invest more they get bigger number. So, that's some kind of digital certificate of investment, as I have explained in the post #395. So, bitcoin doesn't have powers to do something, or to benefit someone.

Gobbledy gook. If I have 0.123 BTC in my possession right now, then at this moment I have right in the ballpark of $3,649 in value based on the current price of $29,666 (0.123 * $29,666).

I could choose to spend it right now, or I could save it and take chance that its value might go up or it might go down based on how the price of it changes and based on where I might be able to liquidate it or exchange it for goods/services.

Accordingly, I can go out in the world and see the various things (goods and/or services) that might be priced at around $3,649, and figure out if I can get someone to accept my 0.123 BTC, and if in the event that I cannot find someone to accept the BTC directly, I can convert those BTC into dollars in one of the exchanges that I have an account... and then afterwards, I can pay the person from the dollars that I get from the 0.123 BTC after converting it to dollars.

Maybe I bought those BTC for the same price or for a higher price, or maybe I bought them for $30.75 in 2015 when BTC prices were in the $250 price territory.

There are a lot of possibilities, and price and value have some overlap, but if I bought the 0.123 BTC in 2015 for $30.75, and then I sold them today for $3,649. then it seems that I also received a bit of a surplus value of $3,618.25 (at least in nominal terms).

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

It's just data verifying that people invested in the system.

I could give less than two shits what it is in an existential description. I know that I got $3,618.25 in surplus value from spending that 0.123 BTC, and sure, I might have experienced some other values (and maybe burdens and risks, too) by HODLing it for the last 7 years... but in the end, I go value out of having had purchased it in 2015 and having had sold it at today's price.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

If they invested in the system, then the system has to return them their investments. Yet, this is impossible.

I doubt it matters.

Sure they are using a system, and maybe investing in the token called bitcoin.. that ended up paying off by $3,618.25 after 7 years of HODLing it.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

They cannot get anything from the system, but instead, they must wait for someone from the outside to bring the value in.

Why do I give any shits about that either. Whatever I did worked out. I bought in 2015 and sold in 2022. Great. Works.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

Which is an indispensable proof that nothing exists in the bitcoin system.

Seems to be working.. I just cashed out of the 0.123 BTC and got a $3,618.25 benefit.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

Just like in my fictional system, where I got people to invest in it, but then, they were able to return the investments only from new investments.

Why do I give any shits about your fictional system.. we are talking about bitcoin here.. it is not a fictional system.. it exists... and I just cashed out those 0.123 BTC for $3,618.25 of profits by having had bought them at $30.75 in 2015.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

It's literally mind boggling how you repeatedly ignore this important point, and just talk about completely irrelevant stuff. Or you just repeat that mantra about bitcoin's value.

I could say the same about you. I have given my answers already.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

So, I'll ask you once again:

No need.. I already answered several times.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

where do you see value in the bitcoin system if not a single bitcoin holder can return even a dime worth of investment without new investors?

I am not going to assume facts that are not in front of me.. because at this point there are people willing to buy the 0.123 BTC that I bought in 2015 for $3,649.. why do I need to presume that the buyers do not exist, when they do exist. Furthermore, if they did not exist, then I would not be able to sell my bitcoin, but those are not facts that we actually have in front of us at this moment.. you are wanting to talk about a hypothetical that does not exist at the moment.. and I had already suggested that your hypothetical seems to have around a .001% chance of existing in the future, and sure, you have every right to assign higher odds that it might happen in the future, but we know that it does not exist right now because I see that i can sell my 0.123 BTC for $3,649 at today's price of $29,666 per BTC.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

Or to put it another way: if the influx of new investors stops, how can the holders return their investments?

They won't get their investment if no one wants it because BTC will go to zero... .. So sure, I will agree with you that if no one wants BTC, then BTC will be worth zero... and I will also let you know that at this time BTC is worth $29,666.. at leas at this moment as I type this post.

Quote from: Snowshow on May 23, 2022, 06:14:33 PM

Given you constantly preach about value in the bitcoin system, then you obviously know the answer.

Yes... answered several times already.. but not sure why you keep asking about facts that are not currently in existence merely because you have a kind of wet dream that has about a .001% chance of happening.. give or take.