Quote from: serveria.com on Today at 07:30:05 AM

I mostly agree, but the fact that we had 9 weeks of 'down' is in fact bullish. Not many will dare to short right now and the longer it continues the more scared they will be. Well, unless Bitcoin is dead obviously Grin

I agree those facts do seem problematic for the DOWNity projections.

Quote from: serveria.com on Today at 07:30:05 AM

As to FUD: do you remember times when we had no FUD? I mean that MtGox FUD is dragging behind us since at least what? 2017? Or even before that?

MTGOX was having issues in 2011 regarding questions about their ability to stay solvent from the various hacks that they were experiencing..

And, prior to GOX shutting down in February 2014, there were ONLY few folks able to move any coins off of the exchange.

The FUD about GOX continued right from it's 2014 closing - yet I would imagine there were not really any concerns about dumping coins onto the market until at least 2015.. but then those feelings seem to have lapsed somewhat until early 2018 when the rumors (later admitted to be true) started surfacing that the trustee had been selling BTC during that early 2018 correction and that he might have caused the BTC price to come down to $6k on that first February 2018 correction..
In any event, your assertion that the dumping of GOX coins have many fallen times been attributed to exaggerated single cause explanations regarding to what is happening or will be happening with the BTC price.

Quote from: serveria.com on Today at 07:30:05 AM

And last but not least: what makes me most optimistic is that if we had no blowoff top, there's a fair chance we won't have a 80% drop. After all, it not only the bulls who can get screwed. Grin

If most of the crypto (sorry Jay I deserve a batslap I know Grin

) world awaits "moar down", "$20k" etc why don't we get some healthy "up" instead?

From the context it seems that you are referring to "crypto" in terms of non-bitcoin, and even if you are wanting a batslappening, we know that some of our current shitcoin purgenings might well end up contributing to some of that value flowing back into BTC, and really you seem to be describing that we could be experiencing some BTC price dynamics similar to the April to June 2019 BTC pumpening --- and it would be difficult to argue against that kind of current purgenings of shitcoins and to end up seeing some of that value flowing into bitcoin.. perhaps? perhaps?

Quote from: vapourminer on Today at 09:44:39 AM

Quote from: death_wish on Today at 09:16:33 AM

I was never much sympathetic to the people who got Goxed, because it was their damnfool fault for storing coins on a centralized exchange. Even though "not your keys, not your coins" was not yet a meme being stapled to the forehead of every n00b, it was damn obvious from 3-Jan-2009. Storing money in the custody of a trusted party, who may turn out to be incompetent or malicious - wasn't Bitcoin invented so we could stop doing that?

as i recall peeps at that time when it was obvious they were having problems some folks were deliberately buying coins on mtgox at a discount (they were cheap due to loss on confidence of them being able to withdraw) to try and move to another exchange or their own wallets because of the arbitrage opportunity.

i believe some managed it and got a bit of profit however we all know what happened to the unlucky ones.

Well.. in essence, it is difficult to blame those using the MTGOX services for how their situation ended up. There were not a lot of options in the very beginning of GOX - such as 2010/2011.. and even if more exchanges were opening up, GOX had the appearance of the price / liquidity leader (even this thread referenced the GoX price in early 2013), and so after Gox closed in February 2014, we had several arguments in this thread regarding which exchange(s) should be used as our price and BTC dynamics reference points.

Your point that some folks were greedy was partially valid, but I doubt that we should either blame them or consider that they might not even had been acting somewhat reasonably with the context immediately before the MTGOX's closure.. In essence it took a while to figure out that coins/dollars were going in, but they largely were not coming back out.. while at the same time, there were some successful withdrawals a and also assertions (even from then credible persons like Roger Ver) proclaiming that GOX was completely solvent and there was no need to worry about the SAFUness status of the funds.. (am I mixing metaphores?... hahahahah).

Quote from: elliottflz65 on Today at 12:45:42 PM

Quote from: Macadonian on Today at 12:26:48 PM

Do you wake up some days and think 'I am very lucky to existent when Bitcoin does'? I do not care about what the news are saying about this drop.....bubble...bubble.....blah blah blah they always say that then go quiet when proven wrong.

No I wake up feeling unlucky because of our money system being so broken that the poor get poorer and the rich get richer. Bitcoin would be amazing if it was already our money system but we are too far off for that atm

Wow...

Holy fucking shit.

Macadonian points out a way to attempt to view the world positively which also points to a possible way to carve out benefits in a world with issues...

You, elliottflz65, figured out a way to complain that we are not there yet.

Even with bitcoin, there are probably going to continue to exist a lot of unfairnesses and injustices in the world, so each of us surely have choices regarding both how we are going to perceive the world and also if we are going to attempt to take some actions to put us on a path that has better chances to NOT get fucked as much.. if that is even possible.

It seems to me that bitcoin provides way more hope .. even if "we might not be there," yet.

I have no problem to try to engage in some actions to try to fix injustices in the world, yet it seems to me that taking a position in bitcoin is going to at least provide some of us (who are able to identify some positive aspects in bitcoin) to be able to at least attempt to arm ourselves with resources and tools - otherwise, what are we going to do? just complain? jump off a bridge? or engage in some kind of a hate act towards others because we feel fucked? Seems that it would be a better course forward to attempt to identify ways to exist, have options and maybe to be able to contribute in some kinds of ways.. rather than just whining that there are injustices in the world.. a world that is likely going to always retain some injustices, even if we might achieve some kumbaya improvements through our ability to see bitcoin and to potentially be able to participate in bitcoin.. since we are still lucky enough to be alive (some folks with more energy and fewer disabilities than others), and that seems to have been the point that Macadonian was making.

Quote from: Gachapin on Today at 01:29:56 PM

Quote from: vapourminer on Today at 09:44:39 AM

Quote from: death_wish on Today at 09:16:33 AM

I was never much sympathetic to the people who got Goxed, because it was their damnfool fault for storing coins on a centralized exchange. Even though "not your keys, not your coins" was not yet a meme being stapled to the forehead of every n00b, it was damn obvious from 3-Jan-2009. Storing money in the custody of a trusted party, who may turn out to be incompetent or malicious - wasn't Bitcoin invented so we could stop doing that?

as i recall peeps at that time when it was obvious they were having problems some folks were deliberately buying coins on mtgox at a discount (they were cheap due to loss on confidence of them being able to withdraw) to try and move to another exchange or their own wallets because of the arbitrage opportunity.

i believe some managed it and got a bit of profit however we all know what happened to the unlucky ones.

It's been so long, but wasn't there a website where you could even trade coins trapped in GOX after they started to shut down?

Yes there was a cite in which you could bet on getting your coins back or not (sell them to someone else for 1/5 the BTC price and of course some variance), and that shit really ended up imploding once it became clear that Gox was not going to open back up and it became clear that the proposition for the Gox recovery cite had become clear in regards to GOX was not opening back up.

Quote from: Torque on Today at 03:03:55 PM

JJG, you think? Lol

I try.

Quote from: DieJohnny on Today at 03:15:45 PM

Gold is clearly a manipulated asset. There is zero possibility that USA money printing wouldn't directly impact gold prices, therefore, Gold is suppressed. Gold price suppression is accomplished with the use of derivatives and fractional reserve sellers. All derivatives and fractional reserves have one purpose only and that is to be a lever for large actors to control the price.

Bitcoin has both derivatives and fractional reserve selling at a massive scale. The exponential growth of Bitcoin was doomed roughly 3 years ago. Yes there may be a 10x again, but only if exchanges fail, pegs fail and the dollar collapses. Bitcoin is now in big-boy territory and the establishment is not going to surrender. Bitcoin's strength of decentralization is also its weakness, there is nothing to stop bad actors from corrupting the entire ecosystem.

Good luck with your bet against bitcoin.. you are likely going to need it.

I imagine that you have already accounted for bitcoin being a bearer instrument, and it is much easier to take possession of bitcoin as compared with other assets, including gold.

Sure, the fucktwat financial manipulators are both going to try to manipulate bitcoin into the ground, and some of them are actually going to believe that they can do it.

Time will tell if the manipulators are going to be as successful as you (DieJohnny) presume them capable of being.