Quote from: death_wish on Today at 02:36:14 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 27, 2022, 10:47:33 PM

Quote from: death_wish on June 27, 2022, 09:06:23 PM

I know that some big BTC HODLers are very good about this; they tend not to be the ones who sneer at little altcoins for having a “dev tax”, for they understand that developers need to be paid somehow.

Fuck shitcoins and your seemingly holier than thou attempts to inject their discussion in this thread as if the various compare and contrast cost/benefits are as very relevant at all to our discussion in these here parts as you are trying to make them out to be through your implicit denigration of our lil precious too..

You are lamentably mistaken about my intents.

I seek to shame cAPSLOCK for his apparently self-entitled attitude towards Bitcoin. If he has never donated to support Core development, or otherwise Bitcoinland open-source development, then he is like a welfare bum demanding that others enrich him with freebies—even as he unconscionably sneers at a little altcoin project, which could never have existed without its self-funding mechanism (a.k.a. the “dev tax”). [Edit: I was mistaken about cAPSLOCK; I could go only on what I had or hadn’t seen him post, and it seems that I significantly misunderstood him. I retract and apologize for the statements at this paragraph, which were correct in principle but way off the mark when said about him.]

I have thus a purpose greater than petty argumentation: To encourage WO regulars to support Bitcoin Core. To support development financially, in the sense of “put your money where your money is”.

I am NOT addressing sat-stackers and shrimps; heaven knows, I know what it is like to be in a position where you are scrimping for every sat. But when you get yourself up to at least a few BTC, then you should start seriously thinking about this; and if you have >= 10 BTC, a small-sized hodling for most people who have been in BTC at least 8–10 years as of 2022, then it is rational self-interest to support development. Because Bitcoin ultimately stands on a foundation built by its world-class excellent developers! If development were ever to stall out or degrade in quality, then Bitcoin would suck; and your number would go down in a competitive world, where BTC is not the only option.

That said, I pick on cAPSLOCK because he deserves it. The way this line of discussion started: cAPSLOCK defamed and cussed out Tyler Winklevoss, a big BTC HODLer who, with his ingeminate brother Cameron, were the twin Saylors of an era when Saylor himself dismissed Bitcoin. By comparison to Saylor, the Winklevi didn’t have much for stacking sats—only a few measly millions, with which they had accumulated about 1% of the outstanding BTC supply as of 2012. They bet on BTC big-time! And they bet big on Bitcoin at a time when, according to one of my own recent posts:

Quote from: death_wish on June 27, 2022, 09:06:23 PM

Bitcoin was still riddled with Ponzis and High Yield Investment scams in 2012. Only a visionary with extreme risk tolerance would have taken any significant financial risk on it then.

Thus in the 2017 bull run, they became on paper the world’s first “Bitcoin billionaires”. I don’t know of any evidence that they turned against the source of their wealth, as some early Bitcoiners did. And as centralized exchanges go, their Gemini exchange is reasonably pro-Bitcoin—definitely not anti-Bitcoin like cAPSLOCK’s preferred exchange, shitcoin central: Coinbase!

cAPSLOCK essentially accused Tyler Winklevoss of taking shill payola from Zcash’s “dev tax” to make a tweet supporting the right to privacy. What the hell?

I don’t do “batslaps”, Jay. I have my own way. And I found in this a salutary way to campaign for HODLers, who benefit from Bitcoin, to give something back. If you take care of Bitcoin, then Bitcoin will take care of you. Bitcoin cannot take care of itself, for it has no “dev tax”.

As I mentioned in some of my recent posts, some BTC whales, big businesses, and exchanges are very good about this. That is why Bitcoin is what it is today: Somebody pays for development.

I recently wrote some long posts praising Blockstream for being, insofar as I can see, a company that looks like it’s essentially run to advance Bitcoin development with developers on their payroll. For another example, the BitMEX exchange is well-known for its development funding grants; that is why I tend to be sympathetic to BitMEX, and I have defended their reputation in controversies, even though I have never used BitMEX and I have no financial interest in them. I have also had private discussions about this with Bitcoiners who have large BTC hodlings, who despise WO and all other speculation venues. They are generous towards Core development. All HODLers benefit.

If you have a not-insignificant HODLing—if you want Bitcoin to make you rich—then I suggest that you should think long-term about the foundation on which your riches are reposed. Funding for Bitcoin Core development is an investment in Bitcoin’s long-term health and prosperity.

I doubt that I need to defend cAPSLOCK because he can stand up for his lil selfie. At the same time, you surely do like to come out swinging D_W, and I doubt there is any need to go on such an offensive, including that we are not going to know the varying ways that members are able to give, even beyond just batting around ideas in this thread or other parts of the forum.

I follow quite a few forum threads, but I cannot recall seeing one specifically aimed at various ways to fund devs.. or even funding lighting devs. Of course, the topic comes up, but it does not seem to be one that I am specifically following, and I am not uninterested in the topic. Even with my own management of funds, frequently there can be various competing interest, and even places to send money or to make various kinds of donations, and some people build tithing into their regular budgetary considerations, and sometimes maybe even giving to causes that should have received better due diligence. I am tentatively thinking that I would no mind following a forum thread that might specifically be oriented towards giving bitcoin core and/or lightning devs. Square and Jack Dorsey has also been pretty good at funding Devs.. and even leaving them with a lot of latitude in regards to what they do.

By the way, I am addressing some of your points - and even if you might have made some decent points, it seem to me that I am likely not the ONLY one who is getting a little worn by some of your tone that seems to want to lecture about how certain kinds of behavior fit better in terms of what is a true bitcoiner, and I doubt that trying to shame folks regarding what is a good bitcoiner and their supposed obligations to contribute in ways that you believe are proper (financially) is going to necessarily inspire folks with the means to feel compelled to start giving more in that direction or even considering whether it is in their budget 0.63 BTC, .05 BTC or whatever it might be, to get into giving in a monetary way, including possibly feeling comfortable enough in regards to how much due diligence that they feel that they need to engage in so that they might feel that they are giving to a good cause rather than maybe getting involved in a shitcoin.. or even if the developer(s) that they might start to fund is actually contributing to bitcoin in a way that actually makes bitcoin stronger and/or better..

I am not going to deny that sometimes I have come across some information about Developer funding efforts, but it does not necessarily inspire me to get involved or look into the matter further.. and I have already experienced some areas in my life where I end up getting involved more than I wished that I would have.. so there are ONLY so many hours in the day... and even if you proclaim that some of us (including yours truly) should be spending our time differently - or that you actually believe that cAPSLOCK