Quote from: coolcoinz on June 30, 2022, 02:23:19 PM

On one hand you did great OP by buying bitcoin and not some altcoin. You also chose good buying in at over 70% discount, which should reduce the risk of losing money to a minimum.
On the other hand, you took a loan and interest can be different in 2 years if the inflation keeps rising. Remember that banks can renegotiate your deal if the economy takes a huge hit and also, your fiat will be worth less, so you won't have other choices but to sell bitcoin and take a loss or sell some other property to pay the bank.

1 Bitcoin is just a number. You don't need that much. What if you had 0.5?
I feel like you're chasing profits because you're giving yourself a timeline of 2 years. What if nothing happens by then? Will you consider bitcoin a bad investment?

You're like those guys who invest in bitcoin because they have something to buy and they say to themselves" next halving I'm getting a corvete because I have to show off to my friends! Since bitcoin can reach 100k after the 2024 and my dream car costs 70k, therefore I need 0.7 BTC at $100k to cover that, so I'll take a lonan, buy 0.8 BTC, 0.1 will cover the fees and the rest is for the car"
Plans like that rarely work and then you fall into depression.

Don't expect anything, consider the money lost already, stop following the price and just live your life.

When the price was down in 2018 and 2019 I kept living my life and just accumulating bit by bit from signature campaigns and it paid off. I'm doing the same thing now. No loans, no trading, just holding until something good happens and something will eventually happen. If not this year then in 3 years.

Yes, when considering a loan, it will be a good thing to try to figure out what objectives that you are striving to achieve, and frequently, there is not necessarily going to be payoff in the short-term, unless you can get in and out of it with prices moving in your direction... and what are the odds of that? usually not that great, and easier to see in retrospect that the BTC price will just move in the direction that you wished it to go.

Even your outline of numbers above coolcoinz, we can see that if there might be a desire to accumulate 1 BTC, then we likely need to acquire more than 1 BTC to merely be able to maintain the 1 BTC, otherwise you are just fooling yourself to proclaim that you have 1 BTC that you have already calculated that you have to use some of it to service the loan that you undertook. On the other hand, if you already know that you have a cashflow to be able to service the loan with the proceeds of other income and then if there might be a balloon payment that is due at the end of the two year period (if the loan happens to be for 2 years), then if you know that you would be able to pay the balloon payment with other money that you know that you have coming in, then the loan had served the purpose of merely frontloading known future income.

Here, OP is not frontloading known future income, but instead unambiguously states that he expects to pay off the loan with proceeds of bitcoin that has gone up in value in a range of 2x to 5x within two years... which is not impossible - but still is a gamble because that is ONLY one of many possible future outcomes that might not even have greater than 50/50 chances of happening - even though OP seemed to have been assigning fairly high probabilities to such 2x to 5x BTC price appreciations within two years of his loan.

Quote from: btc78 on July 01, 2022, 03:54:47 AM

Quote from: smartaction on June 29, 2022, 11:07:41 AM

I decided yesterday morning that I would buy 1 bitcoin from this dip market. But I did not have enough money. With which I can buy 1 bitcoin. I had an Fixt Deposit of $ 6,000 in the central bank. And the bank would paying interest at the rate of 5.5% APR. I broke it down yesterday and decided to buy Bitcoin with that money. But with this money I will not be able to buy 1 bitcoin. On the other hand, my dream and desire is to buy 1 bitcoin. I then decided to take a loan and applied to the bank for a loan. But I told the bank that I would use this money for business. The bank agreed to give me a loan of $10,000 at 10% APR interest. I take advantage of that opportunity and take out a loan. And the remaining $ 4,000 I borrowed from my uncle and promised to pay him 8% APR interest, which is more then bank interest. Finally i bought just now 1 BTC price at $20,000. It gives me a different feeling That feeling I have never had before. I think if I hold this bitcoin for 2 years I can get 100% -500% profit. Then I will be able to easily repay my debtors with an average interest of 18-19% in 2 years as an average of 9.something% APR and I will be able to keep a huge profit.

Of course you have felt something you never had before, but for sure you will have more interesting feeling once bitcoin fails you.
Yeah bitcoin proves us everything, it grows every 4 years but remember that we are in crypto world and nothing assured us constantly so better watch out mate.
And never forget to Not taking a lone for crypto investment.

Yes. This is another crazy idea to get a loan in order to rise to the level in which you have 1 whole BTC and therefore you have a great feeling because you have achieved 1 BTC, but how can that feeling be anything except for self-delusion (based on an illusion) because you do not really own the 1 BTC - especially when the BTC is encumbered. Sure even in June/July of this year, we could not have known if the BTC price was going to be going up or down, and surely there were some folks who could have somewhat reasonably speculated that the bottom may well have had been in, but there also could have been ways to create feelings that were more aligned with reality.. and sure maybe it could be argued that I am being too rough on OP retrospectively since the BTC price has gone down.. but maybe it is not even real that any reasonable person should really be able to muster up such artificial feeling of elation because he has gotten to the status of 1 BTC (that is supported by some of his own money but even a majority of the financing coming from a couple of loans).

Quote from: cheezcarls on July 01, 2022, 04:07:58 AM

I hate to say this but applying for a loan on bank for the purpose of buying Bitcoin is a bad and very risky idea. I just dont know what are the terms that you have with the bank in paying back the loan, but it would be much worse if either BTC would go down even further and tread water for a long time.

There are no promises or guarantees if BTC can give you 100% to 500% profit in 2 years as you said. I just dont know how confident are you in this, but I am sorry loaning for the purpose of buying 1 Bitcoin is not a good idea at all. If I were in your shoes, I wouldnt do it and just only invest an amount that I can afford to lose no matter what. By the looks of it in your financial status, I dont think you are ready to afford losing $20k. Unless you are making $20k a month, for sure you can afford.

Actually, a couple of points that you made are interesting.

1st of all, the terms of the loans are important, and if there is about a 9% per year interest rate, and if it is allowed to make "interest ONLY" payments through the two year period of the loan, then the interest payment would be about $105 per month (and about $2,520 for the whole 24 month period), and then result in a balloon payment of $14k at the end of June 2024... so yeah if OP sticks with the loan for the full two year term, then at minimum BTC would have to go up to about $23,600 just to cover the servicing costs of the loan for that two year period... so any profits would not actually come to OP until after BTC would be over $23,600.

Regarding your point about how much OP could afford to lose, he does not have to be making anywhere near $20k a month in order to be able to afford to lose $20k, but of course, he does need to be able to cover the cost of the loan and even to cover the principle if the BTC price were to go down rather than UP. No matter what if he follows through with the whole term of the loans, he is going to be owing $2,520 in interest, but yeah, at the end of June 2024, he is also going to owe back the principle too... which is $14k. So if we assume that OP is able to service the loans at $105 per month, he should also be attempting to generate some kind of an extra cashflow of around $583.33 per month (which is $14k/24) in order that he will have the ability to pay $14k in late June 2024.

I doubt that OP has thought that far ahead because he seems to have been gambling on BTC going up in value in order to be able to pay off the loans in late June 2024.

Quote from: KingsDen on July 08, 2022, 09:13:09 PM

Sometimes we see bitcoin as a business or an investment that will end next month. I have made some mistakes when I was a newbie in this crypto market. I have bought unnecessary coins due to FOMO and I lost in all. I have done so many bad investments, but my happiness is that I have learnt my lessons.

I am glad that you have the ability to admit that you have learned some lessons KingsDen. Learning lessons is important for anyone investing, managing money and figuring out how to employ practices that also include the balancing of seeking profits and managing risks.

Quote from: KingsDen on July 08, 2022, 09:13:09 PM

I have learnt that another opportunity will still come. Who thought bitcoin would be as cheap as it is today. If I miss the opportunity, another one will come.

Even if you supposedly learned various lessons, I am not sure if you are thinking about the matter correctly. Sure, there are always opportunities out there, and sure with bitcoin or anything else, you are able to enter at any point that you like.. so in that regard, there is a need to measure the opportunities and balance the allocations and figure out the size of your positions based on facts currently available.

In regards to bitcoin, I frequently tell people to get the fuck started as soon as possible, but even if I tell them to get started as soon as possible, that does not mean that they should jump into bitcoin balls to the walls. Maybe they start out with $10 per week, and they work up to $100 per week while they are studying the matter and getting their finances and psychology in order. One of the most important things with any investments is to figure out your own finances and psychology, and you do not need to know all of the finances and psychology with great precision in order to get started right away. Any of us should have some ballpark ideas of our incoming cashflow and our expenses, so we right now any of us should be able to figure out if we can afford to buy $10 worth of bitcoin for today's (this week's) allocation... and then surely, we can spend some time to figure out our details, and surely some folks have some really fucked up finances (and psychology) that they have gotten themselves into.. so for some people it could take a while to really sort out their personal matters.

You are not wrong in regards to opportunities always being available... yet I am not sure if it is the right mindset when it comes to recognizing and appreciating the value of bitcoin, especially if you happen to be either a no coiner or a low coiner. On the other hand, if you have already been accumulating BTC for some time, then you may well not be a no coiner, but you still might be a low coiner and in need of evaluating if low coiner status happens to be your situation.

Quote from: KingsDen on July 08, 2022, 09:13:09 PM

The simple truth is that no one would be super rich with bitcoin again.

That's not true. You don't necessarily need super high appreciation in an asset (whether bitcoin or otherwise) to be able to profit stupendously from it. It's kind of sounds like you really have not learned very much if your mindset is to pursue assets in order to become rich quickly. You say that you have learned things.. but I wonder if that really is true..? have you learned actual important things rather than merely reinforcing dumb ideas or just learning unimportant things on the fringe?

Quote from: KingsDen on July 08, 2022, 09:13:09 PM

If you are not an early adopter, you can only have money to fit your bills but you cannot be super wealthy.

You really are acting as if you know where bitcoin is going... .. as if it is just going to be flat, go down, or have mediocre performance. How do you know these things? Which assets are going to appreciate? Which assets are better than bitcoin? Are you a no coiner? or a low coiner? Where are you putting your money right now? Do you have any money? Are your actions reflecting your words or are you just spouting out hypothetical nonsense that is not based on anything?

Give me an example. Let's say that someone is late 20s or early 30s, and they have an investment portfolio that is around $50k or maybe they have accumulated more (and they have an adequate emergency fund and all that). What is their current allocations? Do they need to reallocate? They have an income of about $3k per month with expenses of about $2,000 per month.. so they have about an extra $1k per month for investing. Where do they put that $1k per month? Yes, you can change the variables if you like... but let's entertain some specifics rather than suggesting that having some bitcoin allocation is supposedly all doom and gloom from here on out.