Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 10:04:31 AM

@JayJuanGee Please stop trolling this discussion.

You seem to not understand what is "trolling."

I am not trolling. I am providing examples, comparing and contrasting, and you had seemed to have been saying that bitcoin was just like numbers attached to nothing, but that is not true. Bitcoin has attached prices that can also be assessed as value in various ways. It is not an easy topic, and your attempts to overly simplify, including proclaiming that bitcoin does not have value fails to capture what is bitcoin - and surely it does not seem to amount to your numbers system.

Just to reiterate the earlier example, if I had enough bitcoin right now, i could get hookers, lambos and blow with such bitcoin, and the bitcoin that I would end up using for such consumptive purchase could have been attained (let's say having had obtained the bitcoin 6-8 years ago) at a fraction of the actual today's cost of hookers, lambos and blow.

You could not even come close to making those kinds of claims about the retention of purchasing power or even the increase in purchasing power in regards to dollars or the numbers system that you seemed to have been suggesting to exist.

In other words, you seem to be mixed up in the various claims that you are making, and you are proclaiming that I am trolling because my examples, even as further highlighted by tadamichi, seem to show how vacuous your various claims are... and you are not even getting better with the passage of time.. You try to imply your claims are getting stronger, but instead you are just ongoingly changing aspects of the topic - so you seem to be trolling your own topic.. since you cannot (or will not) even address your original questions/assertions or the various responses to your questions/assertions.

Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 01:15:12 PM

Bitcoins on the other hand are not numbers that represent quantity of debt or other resource that people own. Bitcoins (lowercase "b") are just units of Nakamoto's imaginary number (21 million) that the system or network (Bitcoin) attributed to people's addresses as a way to label that they joined the Nakamoto scheme. Bitcoins are simply a modern way of labeling members of a traditional fraudulent investment scheme.

You are right that the value/price of bitcoin does not represent debt owed to anyone. Bitcoin is a bearer instrument that has value and price attached to it, and of course, both the value and the price fluctuates, but we can still transact with bitcoin in terms of today's spot price or we could hold it out of anticipation of a greater or even an equal future price.. we might even attach some value to just being able to hold value and to be able to spend bitcoin later, even if it might have gone down in value in the future.

Your attempts to pigeonhole bitcoin seems to intentionally fail/refuse to recognize the various ways that bitcoin has value and also certain kinds of values that are likely greater than capabilities within various existing fiat (or debt) based systems.

I am not even proclaiming that there are not any costs to having such power contained in bitcoin to be able to transact directly without a third party intermediary who might either interfere with the transaction or change the value of the underlying bitcoin (or satoshis).. Many of us have already seen various ways that bitcoin has become more user-friendly, but there are still potential costs of losing bitcoin private keys and then no one can recover that value that had been lost.

In the real world, rather than in Snowshow's fantasy land, there seems to be a whole hell of a lot of value in terms of NOT having bitcoin debased with the passage of time, and sure none of the current holders of bitcoin or even the future holders of bitcoin can predict with confidence the future price of bitcoin, even though there are various models to help to provide some guidelines, but with the passage of time it seems that many bitcoiners (and even precoiners or current no coiners) are learning that there is likely greater value in terms of being in a system (bitcoin) in which they underlying currency/value is not being ongoingly debased. You (Snowshow) continue to just dance around such topic and try to attribute way more value to various traditional fiat-based systems than they deserve, and sure some of those systems are not likely to completely disappear in bitcoin, but at least the foundation level of bitcoin has way more solidness (and the collateral that you admit to be valuable) as compared with the various fiat-based systems that are currently practiced in a variety of ongoingly deceptive and confusing ways.