Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 02:14:45 PM

Quote from: DooMAD on July 11, 2022, 03:00:35 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on July 11, 2022, 01:15:12 PM

If you hold fiat currency, that is, numbers it is the banking system, it is that system that ows you, not a particular bank. So if a particular failed bank sell their assets (loans included) to a different bank, it is that bank that will force the borrowers to repay their loans. And in order for the borrowers to be able to reply their loans they are forced to provide labour, services and products to the number holders. In that way, the debt, that the system owes to those holders (because they invested in debt whose quantity is represented with numbers) is paid.

Horseshit. Complete and utter horseshit. If you can't understand fiat well enough to understand why agencies like the FSCS exist, or why millionaires put their money in property/art/etc, then you clearly aren't in a position to argue any further on this point. You are too ignorant and misinformed to present any credible arguments against Bitcoin.

There's nothing to understand. Fiat currencies are numbers that are used to represent quantity of debt. End of story. In the OP I mentioned this as a way to demonstrate the difference between numbers that represent a resource and numbers that represent nothing but are just units of a number created in Nakamoto's imagination. I could have as well used numbers in brokerage accounts that represent quantity of shares in companies. Or numbers on invoices that represent the quantity of products or services. Some government agencies have nothing to do with that. This is just your way to shift the discussion away from the point that clearly shows why Nakamoto's invention is a fraudulent investment scheme.

@JayJuanGee Can you please, please stop trolling this topic. Read the OP to see what this topic is about.

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on July 11, 2022, 03:32:58 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on July 10, 2022, 07:55:44 AM

No, my shit coins or fiat currencies are numbers that represent the quantity of debt created in the banking system that I own. Which is clearly evidenced in the balance sheets of the banks where the deposits are recorded as banks liabilities. Banknotes are of course redeemable for the deposits. Bitcoin doesn't represent the quantity of debt. Nobody ows you anything when you hold it. So, bitcoin is indeed just a worthless numeric label. That's why you're forced to find new victims to dump that shit on them. There's zero similarly between fiat and bitcoin.

You've been explained this fact countless times, yet you refuse to accept it. Instead, you just repeat usual nonsense about bitcoin doing the same thing as fiat currency.

What you keep failing to understand is that actually Bitcoin represents way better any resource than your shit money. That's a fact and you can't accept it, or at least don't want to accept it. No matter how many times people try to show you by means of 2 + 2, you keep repeating yourself over and over again about what is debt, what it represents, what fiat money do, what it doesn't do, bla bla bla as if you were telling us something we don't know.
You're like almost 20 years late my friend. We know everything you seem to know and we are showing knowledge like 20 years ahead of you.

But as I told you before, keep going with the troll, while I'm getting more and more useless numbers of that scheme Satoshi created while you are getting nothing and even more, you're losing as time passes by! Once more HFST.BTCBTCBTCBTC

Bitcoin represents no resource. That's why you need resources from new investors to exist Nakamoto scheme. Bitcoin is simply an advanced way to record the investors who joined a fraudulent investment scheme. In all such schemes, from the one invented by Charles Ponzi to the one invented by Bernie Madoff, investors were recorded in some way. Satoshi Nakamoto invented an online and numerically based method of recording the investors. There's nothing to discuss here if you look at the facts. Here I am simply refuting your rationalizations for the denial of the facts.

Quote from: tadamichi on July 12, 2022, 06:07:21 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on July 11, 2022, 01:15:12 PM

Wrong. If you hold fiat currency, that is, numbers it is the banking system, it is that system that ows you, not a particular bank. So if a particular failed bank sell their assets (loans included) to a different bank, it is that bank that will force the borrowers to repay their loans. And in order for the borrowers to be able to reply their loans they are forced to provide labour, services and products to the number holders. In that way, the debt, that the system owes to those holders (because they invested in debt whose quantity is represented with numbers) is paid.

Lets test these claims in practice.

Recent Bank runs in China:

More infos here:

Quote from: https://www.asiamarkets.com/chinese-banks-run/

There’s a run on Chinese banks and it’s being ignored by the world

Did the system pay the owed money back, when the banks couldnt? No. (Just up to $7,442, but we will never be able to verifiy if it actually happens, we can try to get more infos on friday when the money should be paid)
Could people withdraw their money, that was worked for a long time? No.
Do running living costs care, if you cant pay now, because your bank doesnt work? No.
Life savings lost forever? Yes.
So if the customers didnt get their money back, what was repaid to them? State violence and silence by the world. https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1546014495784349696 https://twitter.com/Byron_Wan/status/1546025798145957888

Does this only happen in „third world“ countries?

First of all, it doesnt.
Second of all, every human in the world has the right to keep their life savings and money they worked for, no matter where theyre from. A wipeout has consequences that cant be made unhappened later on.

What are your practical suggestion for a person that just lost millions, or 40 years of work, without having done anything wrong?

After your logic, a victim of these things in china, would have been fallen for a scam if they put their money into Bitcoin, even tho they would still have it now. And they wouldnt have been scammed by having their money in fiat, even tho people just lost everything.

So? Point? Fiat currencies are still numbers that represent the quantity of debt. Bitcoin is still number created in Nakamoto's imagination that represent no resource, which is why those that hold bitcoins must wait for new investors to bring the resources in. You, the same as many here, try to shift the discussion away from the fact that Nakamoto scheme is a traditional fraudulent investment scheme in an online form.

Quote from: amishmanish on July 11, 2022, 03:58:32 PM

When banking system was created, the bills were attributed some value, something we today call as fiat currency. Its nothing but a piece of paper backed by reserve bank. Still it changed the way we do transactions( Previously it was barter). Then came the online banking, but it lacked the flexibility of true digital currency. That is where satoshi saw opportunity and gave us a system of online currencies, today we call as crypto, which can help us make blockchain based transaction. Which outweighs fiat or online banking.

Bills were always just papers with some numbers on them. In the past they represented the quantity of gold. Today they represent the quantity of debt. Satoshi gave no currency, but numbers that represent nothing. Satoshi simply came up with a number (21 million) and created protocols and software for attributing units of that number to online addresses of investors that fell for their fraud. People invest resources in, and then they wait new investors to get the resources back and in that way exist the scheme. That's how all fraudulent investment schemes operate. Satoshi Nakamoto is simply a smart fraudster. And you all are a naive and gullible victims of their fraud. When the scheme collapses then you'll realize the true meaning of my words. Currently you're blinded by greed and thoughts of getting rich because you saw that others made a lot of money from this fraud.

@shitshow, excuse me @snowshow, you are the one who started this troll. Your ignorante stand is the ridiculous one here. I tell you once more that your shiat coin represents shit. Debt is no resource as it has no value. You only say that because that's what you have been told by keynsian dumb fucks or read somewhere in the internet and you just swallowed it like a lamb. You have no own critical reasoning. You just soak up the first crap you're given. So, don't keep repeating the same old shit keysian dum asses told you. Because that's what you've been doing for the last 30 or 40 pages. Is that your shiat coin represents a quantity of debt. Debt created by banks... As these 2 statements could ever give any value/resource to debt. No, there is no value in debt. There is only keynsian imagination in debt. There is only your imagination in debt and in your shiat coin.
And what banks balance seets tells you means nothing because they can put there whatever they want, true or false, that you'll kust swallow it like the lamb you are.

On the other end, Bitcoin has value basaed on technology, criptography, math, computer science and through all properties of a hard/sound money. But you, as a lam you are, can only soak in the crap you were given and you can't even judge that same crap and add 2 to 2 and see that something is not adding up.