Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 10:50:06 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 02:38:49 PM

Quote from: slackovic on Today at 01:45:52 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 11:41:29 AM

Well you can keep repeating that debt has no value but those that own it by holding fiat currencies, literally every minute, all around the world, receive labour, products and services from the borrowers, who in that way pay their debt. Debt is liability of one and asset of another. Fiat currencies are simply records of asset ownership.

On the other hand, bitcoins, plus satoshis, are just tokens of participation in a fraudulent investment scheme. That person Nakamoto set up a system to produce 2.1 quadrillion of these tokens, and those who want to invest in his fraud buy the tokens or invest electricity in them. After that they own nothing and hold the evidence of fraud participation. Hence, Nakamoto invented a modern way of recording the participants who joined an investment fraud.

Oh my God! You are still here???

I don't know where you get your data about Bitcoin, but if I'm not mistaken, there will be maximum 21 million Bitcoin. Not 2.1 quadrillion. Do you even check things before you post nonsense?

If Bitcoin is fraud, how come no one is being arrested for using it?

Read the OP. I rewrited it.

I must admit that this part is funny Snowshow. Even though I am a meanie who is laughing at you rather than with you.

Quote from: Snowshow on Today at 02:38:49 PM

You'll see that semantic is not important.
Bitcoins are tokens of ponzi participation. Satoshis are tokens of ponzi participation as well. There are 21 quadrillion of those tokens.

There are 2.1 quadrillion satoshis... you are correct, and satoshis are probably the most appropriate reference unit in bitcoin, even though we also know that in recent times, there have been transactions on the lightning network in sub-satoshis arena including millisatoshis, which are 1/1,000th of a satoshi?

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on Today at 10:13:25 AM

Bitcoin holds a few other properties that I think I have already mentioned but not sure if it was here, but I mention them again

Durability
Portability
Divisibility
Scarcity

There are a few others that might not have a specific name such as the property of keeping it's value over time but not in the sense of numerical value. In the sense of the value we give it today by its properties, by what tit represents, by what it enables in terms of privacy, etc.

Personally, I like the idea of Verifiability. It is quite powerful to be able to verify that you have real bitcoin. It is really difficult to do that with anything else..

gold? holy shit what a nightmare.. especially on a system wide level, even though it might not be so difficult if you have a coin in your hand and you melt it down or whatever it is that you have to do to really have confidence.

fiat?

Equities?

Property?

Some of them you might be able to verify.. but then you add the other properties that you mentioned darkv0rt3x, such as portability... or divisibility, or scarcity.. then you run into challenges of each and every one of the potential competitors as being quite a large way inferior to bitcoin.. one of the reasons that bitcoin is about 1,000x better than its next closest competitor (gold), even though bitcoin has less than a 1/20 market cap of gold.. it might take bitcoin 50, 100 or even 200 years to get to 1,000x higher price than gold (referring to market cap), yet Gresham's law dynamics will continue to push these valuations versus price in a likely to be more true direction/assessment.

You are absolutely right. I forgot that important one. Verifiability. But even gold was way better than the shitshow we actually have. Like, I think about it this way: before 1971, the world was under the gold standard and as Ron Paul said countless times, the prive of US dollar was roughly stable. That means something. That even without them knowing about what was to come in 2009, gold was te best element to back up the fiat system, from the people's standpoint.
This guys says it all in a few words
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfWgmw435YE
He knows what he's talking about and he knows what will come. And see what is happening today... Just what he said. fiat losing value, people freedom going to near 0, bankrupcies, corruption, lies, etc.

Yes, Bitcoin will take time. That's why I keep saying and "explaining" over and over again about the importance of Time Preference. Probably one of the hardest concepts to soak in, accept and actually put in practice.