Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on Today at 05:37:28 PM

Quote from: tadamichi on Today at 04:26:01 PM

Exactly, thats why im saying all these useless regulations should be contested in court by businesses from the beginning

But there is no incentive for an exchange to do so. Each exchange knows they can ask ridiculous KYC and that they can arbitrarily freeze or steal some users' coins, because every other centralized exchange is doing it too. They'll only start paying attention when they start losing business to DEXs or peer to peer trading. But with the general growth of bitcoin, for ever users which leaves a centralized exchange to use non-KYC trading methods instead, two more newbies come along and sign up without realizing they are sacrificing everything that bitcoin stands for.

I believe the issue was made when the first exchanges faced regulatory pressure and gave in / came up with 'taint'; claiming they are doing their best to freeze / block transactions from 'fraudulent activity' so that authorities leave them alone and don't treat them as 'businesses helping in internet crime'. Then they probably also noticed that it's a great way to make a bit of extra money. Remember, precedent was created beforehand in fiat land: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paypal#Criticism_and_controversies

The issue with stuff like this is that when you have a precedent, like normalizing a notion of 'taint' in Bitcoin and normalizing account closures due to 'past illicit activities' of coins, it is hard to explain that almost everyone was wrong about this for over 10 years.
I remember years ago, when even my own knowledge of Bitcoin was a lot worse, 'taint' was already a relatively known / normal concept. 'Clean coins' it was called back then. You wanted to get 'clean coins' not to get in trouble... This is years ago. Imagine establishing such terms and then having to re-educate people. It's going to be hard honestly.

The other day, I discovered JoinMarket's ANN thread, which is funny since it's being brought up a lot (even in below quote). Look at what belcher had to say about taint in 2015.

Quote from: belcher on January 09, 2015, 09:21:36 PM

Because of the incentives of JoinMarket, you have access to a huge amount of clean, untainted bitcoins to mix with at a very low price. Many of the bitcoins you're mixing with will be bought from regulated exchanges, owned by legitimate holders of bitcoin.

Do you understand? Even guys who endorsed and developed CoinJoins, didn't apparently fully 'get it' back then.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on Today at 05:37:28 PM

Quote from: tadamichi on Today at 04:26:01 PM

Sadly yeah, i just hope some legitimate businesses will start to care and do something. It would separate them from the rest. But its unlikely to happen, they all just comply to nonsense.

There are indeed exchanges which rightly completely ignore any taint nonsense, such as Bisq and LocalCryptos, and coinjoin implementations such as JoinMarket. Perhaps we could also start a whitelist of online businesses such as gift card sellers which are known to pay no attention to taint and freely accept mixed or coinjoined coins, etc.

Funnily, those that do ignore the nonsense, aren't really often businesses but rather decentralized open-source platforms.. Cheesy

Actually when I created this blacklist, I contemplated making a whitelist, but I believe it's going to be a lot of work to maintain it, and businesses also tend to either give themselves the right to steal funds due to 'taint' or say nothing on the topic, but never have I read ToS that specifically say all coins are accepted equally.