Quote from: Veleor on July 29, 2022, 10:35:45 PM

Quote from: DaRude on July 29, 2022, 10:04:49 PM

Quote from: Branko on July 29, 2022, 05:21:30 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on July 29, 2022, 05:12:40 PM

This one was actually quite successful as a propaganda move. I see Western media (AP etc) peddle this now, some reports like "Russia claims Ukrainians attacked prison" and some without the "Russia claims" part. Kremlin will do everything they can to create the impression that HIMARS is used "improperly", they're really afraid of it and perhaps hoping that US will slow delivery because of this propaganda.

Anyone who 100% believes either side has an agenda...its war, and lies and propaganda are used on both sides.
Once its over, winner will decide who was liar and who was telling the truth

Pretty much this. Nevertheless we can make educational guesses.

What we know, in support of RU side:
-Russian side went to great length to capture those PoW
-Azov "evacuation" had the most global attention and was overseen by Red Cross
-They have great PR value. Parading PoWs on cameras is a great moral booster
-PoWs have direct values when doing PoW exchanges. And we know that some were already used in a PoW exchange
-Azov PoWs are especially prized, they're so valuable internally that Russia wanted to pass resolution banning their exchange
-Dead PoWs have no value to RU. It would be counter productive for RU. It can be used as moral booster and incentivize UA fighters to fight to the end instead of surrendering
-8 RU prison guards were also wounded in the shelling

In support of UA side:
-It's their most (?) prized military unit
-Azov PoWs had priority over other regular military PoWs

Summary of RU side claims as i see it:
-Azov PoWs started to talk with investigators and UA attacked to shut them up.

Summary of UA side claims as i see it:
-RU kills PoWs to pressures UA to stop using HIMARS
-RU kills PoWs so UA stops fighting Huh

-Because that's just what orcs do

Considering the value of Azov being alive to UA and RU sides, both claims sound ridiculous to the point of being laughable. So most likely this was an accidental attack. As these things go, like with MH17, one side will try to do everything to investigate and drum up as much attention as possible, and the other side has no option but to just blatantly deny everything and try to make it go away ASAP.

It's even more ridiculous to say it was accidental attack.
The captured Azovites are still highly valued for exchange, because at large in Ukraine they are apparently still considered the elite and there are many more of their fighters and supporters at large who are pressing the Zelensky government to exchange them in the very first place.
For the Zelensky government, for which victories on the information front are much more important than real ones, it would be better if the Azov people did not surrender, but died the death of the brave as martyrs. Therefore, on the one hand, Kyiv exchanges part of the soldiers, and on the other hand, instead of Russia, it may well seek to complete its plan to glorify the prisoners from Azovstal by completely destroying it. Moreover, as mentioned above, such attacks may be designed not only to intimidate witnesses, but to reduce the desire of Ukrainian soldiers to surrender into Russian captivity.

...

Not a week goes by where some high ranking UA official SBU, ministers etc...doesn't get arrested, charged with treason, or accused of collaboration with RU. They have so many holes there that even planning something like this seems unreasonable.

Quote from: Waradlain on July 29, 2022, 11:12:47 PM

Quote from: DaRude on July 29, 2022, 10:04:49 PM

Let me be clear, even considering that you, as a biased user, wont accept this.
You can talk about logic and motives when it comes to any other country except Russia. They are capable of any crazy stuff because they can and they get away with it. If in 2008 the civilized World gave a tough rebuff in response to the invasion of Georgia, you didn't even know what Crimea is.

Now here, the pro-Kremlin telegram channel with a huge number of subscribers reflects in early June what MI6 would do with British-supplied MLRS in Ukraine. It's sick already but quite fine for russians. So one of their targets as per this channel should be Olenivka. Since you're an expert in russia I hope you know that the translation from "they may" to russian is "we will". Why? No one knows, because they can.

NOw lemme ask how you end up spreading your bullshit here for literally 8 people? Your no good at least for Reddit or Alexa stats with impressive digits of this forum is enough to master russian budgets?

Right, your position is represented under "Because that's just what orcs do"