Quote from: franky1 on August 22, 2022, 09:21:53 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 22, 2022, 05:46:04 AM

Quote from: franky1 on August 20, 2022, 01:07:25 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 20, 2022, 11:22:25 AM

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Mixers that mix bitcoin without letting it be obvious that it came from a mixer?

Shower thought. What if a mixer only accepted transactions sent to it through the Lightning Network? In theory, it could help with OP's question on how to "hide" the fact that someone used a mixer, because a transaction in the Lightning Network takes multiple hops before making it to the destination. It won't be your actual UTXOs that reaches the mixer. How will outside-observers know that you're actually using a mixer?

shower with some soap thought
locking funds up. and then using said references to then do some offchain swaps where the utxo to unlock of someone elses (random person) then goes to you. is better than spamming the network with traditional mixer span..
.. but if you then advertise that other network(LN) as a privacy enhancing tool (like regulators already recognise LN as a privacy enhancing tool) still gets all the locks to LN red flagged
yep all them locks listed on 1ml are red flagged as suspicious.

You started the post reasonably, but there you are again, franky1. Starting to include subtle disinformation, and gaslighting techniques.

you love the word gaslighting. but you have no clue.
try to do your own research and stop relying on buddies/peoples teachings..
funny part is i am the one that provides actual data from actual sources of actual things that are actually related.
its your buddies that just quote another buddy who quotes another buddy all with similar mindsets as their "sources". which makes them the gaslighters

go check the FATF policies
https://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/recommendations/Updated-Guidance-VA-VASP.pdf
heck i even linked them to your lil buddy group. heck i even sumarising a few paragraphs of importance to them.. i even made them colourful to really show the things in a way that might tempt them to read..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5409206.msg60729993#msg60729993
(its in blue)
and guess what..
the FATF do mention about layered networks promoted as scaling solutions but used as privacy enhancing tools.. so yep FATF are well aware of LN

..
i know your buddies are whispering to you to ignore regulations. dont do research and try to stroke your head back to sleepy land of utopian dreams that LN is the best thing ever and regulators dont know about LN.. all becasue one of their buddies told them so they should tell you that your in a good place with them

but your wrong
to save another if trying to battle your buddies groups ignorance. ill just repeat myself in the same post giving you 2 oppertunities to be brave and do the research by checking
something that is diferent to what your buddies have told you

here i picked out just some of the hundreds of things in the wall of text policy(your buddies never read walls of text so i know they did not read the FATF regulations)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5409206.msg60729993#msg60729993
the blue writing will show you that they know of LN and they consider these 'layering systems' and 'scaling solutions' that are promoted as privacy tools as suspect and red flag triggers

I never saw read the updated guidelines before, thanks for posting. OK, I admit my mistake.

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HENSE why i said stop advertising things as "privacy enhancing" and instead call a new smart contract network (with less flaws as LN has) a "property rights" network
then you will have more legal bases to defend against certain things. while then offering a feature that still (without mentioning it) does the functions you need

its called being smart. to find the loop holes of regulations. like how uber disrupted the taxicab industry without calling themselves a taxi service

rather then pretending regulations are not real and then advertising things as the very thing regulators are watching out for/actioning against

this topic is about the topic creator wanting to do a function without it being easily spotted as doing that function..
i gave actual advice..
the certain few people of a certain group however.. are just saying "dont worry just use a service publicly promoted as doing the function"
(facepalm).. thus they are the ones giving bad advice

Personally, I'm not pretending that regulations, and "they" the government are not real. In fact, my discussion in another topic about WasabiWallet blocking outputs used for "illegal transactions", and its users accepting the trade off, is something which I believe is the same debate to not ignore regulations because it can cause the user some legal problems later.

Quote from: franky1 on August 22, 2022, 07:48:10 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on August 16, 2022, 03:26:57 PM

Quote from: FanEagle on August 16, 2022, 02:39:03 PM

I am not fond of mixing at all, it should be illegal

So asking change for the meter would become illegal too? It still amazes me how many people always ask for more government regulation and less freedom.

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people who will keep doing it for bad purposes

Let me guess: next you'll tell me you have nothing to hide?

LOYCE..
you are kind of realising things. but afraid to step over the line and go against your buddies rhetoric.

the feature of a service that gives out change for a meter. is not regulation red flag.. because.. wait for it.. i think you know. but if not take a seat and wait for it.. [drum role]:

although the function is the same.. ITS NOT ADVERTISED as a mixer. its not promoting itself as a privacy enhancing tool..

get the idea yet? the loop hope i was talking about you guys seem to not get

stop advertising that people should use things defined as mixers, knowing that the use of mixers are the things that get people on watchlists

become smarter. start a new smart contract network without the LN flaws/bugs and bottlenecks.. dont advertise it as a privacy tool. call it a property rights protection network. (secretly it can function to swap coins between users without being on a ledger) and dont advertise it as a mixer/privacy enhancing tool. and so regulations are then not going to go after it.

yep a service giving change for a meter would be red flagged if it continued doing the same service. but started calling itself a privacy enhancing tool/mixer/tumbler(all the keywords of regulation red flags)

its not red flagged because its not advertised as such..
.. simple

From a technical standpoint, would sanctioning the Lightning Network be as easy as sanctioning Tornado Cash? Tornado Cash is a mixer in Ethereum, Lightning is a whole network of nodes from different locations worldwide.