Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on June 20, 2022, 03:24:55 AM

i dont understand why bitcoin has to be just base on people perceive value of it. and for someone to just artrarily fix the supply of them at 21 million doesn't make any sense. it should be able to contract and expand the # of bitcoins in existence. but because bitcoin is design very simplistically it is kind of like monopoly money. not backed up by anything.

Quote from: death_wish

It's a common myth. Bitcoin’s price is not directly caused by subjective perceptions: It is a result of the market, based on supply and demand. Perceptions are one factor in the “demand” side of that. There are other factors to demand; and perceptions do not alter supply.

Ultimately, Bitcoin’s fundamental value derives from its facilitation of productive economic activity, which would be costlier, infeasible, or impossible without Bitcoin. I know that I have done productive non-Bitcoin, non-market business with Bitcoin, which I could not have done without Bitcoin. That’s not extraordinary: It is being an ordinary Bitcoiner who uses Bitcoin as money, rather than a purely speculative buyer who just wants “number go up”. The more such people they are, the higher the organic, non-speculative demand for BTC.

i'm not saying bitcoin doesn't do that. but bitcoin has weaknesses. you can't deny that. the main weakness being that it is not backed up by something like gold. gold could then be used to measure the value of bitcoin. and gold has real world use. people wear it. it gets used in all kinds of electronics. bitcoin doesn't get used anywhere for any purpose. it's just imaginary.

Quote

This discussion of economics is far off-topic for the development forum. I feel obliged to answer something that is more usually nocoiner FUD or newbie confusion. If you have further questions about this, I refer you to Bitcoin Discussion or Economics.

ok well, the topic belongs somewhere.

First off btc has definite utility in the power sector.

It also can be used to create demand and build larger solar arrays.

Lets explain the demand concept.

Warehouse owner has a 2 acre flat roof not in use.
He is a dry goods warehouse. Means he uses no refrigerators and very little power.

He wants to creat a solar array. His demand is very low. Maybe 10kwatts an hour day 240 kwatts a day or 7200 kwatts a month.

A two acre solar array can have 400 400 watt panels which is about 160 kwatts peak per hour.

that is about 800 maybe 900 kwatts a day.

so lets put a 400 panel array on the roof. Nope why daily demand is only 240 kwatts not 800-900

So maybe only 100 panels are allowed maybe 120.

you waste the space on the roof and can not do the 400 panels.

Well bitcoin fixes this.
Put in enough gear to make 40kwatts an hour vs your current 10 kwatts an hour.

that is about 10 s19 miners.

do it for six months maybe one year you now have the demand to allow 400 panels. vs 100-120 panels

This is real utility. you created 900 kwatts a day worth of power vs 240 kwatts a day of power

and you mined btc.

That is real value. commerical power is at least 5 cents a kwatt

900-240= 660 times 5 cents is $33 a day in extra power created by those miners

that is over 11000 a year in extra power create.

thus real utility

so the argument you post should be deleted or altered to say besides demand utility (which i clearly show is real) what worth does btc have.

I have a second one btc due to pow mining can allow for excess power production to not be wasted.

Yeah power plants have over capacity and shut down if coal or oil but if the plant is hydro it can not be shut down. btc mining allows that excess power to not be wasted.

that is two real examples of why btc has true value.

third since i proved that btc has real value it means a real value item can be moved out of a country in case of a war.

ie you live in ukraine and escape you can easily recover your coins in another country.

so three real true reasons that can not be erased or dismissed as fake value.

and as the op what you got to shut that down?

World world three and complete loss of the civilized world 🌎 world be one valid argument
Complete world agreement to outlaw btc also works

Maybe you have a third one?