Quote from: stompix on Today at 01:12:38 AM

Quote from: franky1 on September 05, 2022, 10:21:45 PM

for product safety and consumer safety. they are wasting that 1kw-2kw energy but not producing the maximum achievable heat out of that energy
meaning they are not even approaching the limits of physics

Can you please elaborate on what happens to that energy that is not turned into heat in an electric heater?
Because unless it is either magically sent back to the grid or it's used to electrocute everyone in the room it does break the first law of thermodynamics.

So do enlighten me on what happens to the "wasted energy" in a heater or elaborate on how you feed a system 2 kWh and you get out only 5 MJ or 3MJ and not 7.2.

firstly
i dare you to take 20 different (randomly picked) heaters all using 2KW and i guarantee you they all wont be emitting the same radiant heat..

so where you want to imply they must al be following some natural law of all converting 2kw into Xmj of heat.. at the same max efficiency that no other product thats not a heater cant surpass... you will prove yourself wrong instantly by test driving heaters..

scared to try? well you really do not have a clue do you
not all materials produce the same heat from the same electric current flowing through them.

also many heaters also produce light as part of the heating element (halogen heaters)

you really need to learn about the many factors involved in devices and efficiencies and materials used... oh and also limitations allied to devices by safety regulators

you need to realise that design, regulation, safety come into things where by energy is wasted BY DESIGN for comfort and safety..
yep if one material can radiate a space of 2metres using a intense light(halogen) heat system.. some regulator would come along and say the light is too bright and can burn somones retina's or their skin if too close so they use a less efficient material to get the heat without the light.
thus devices do not function at the max limit of thermo dynamic law.. by design

or from the other side of convection heating some materials can blow out enough heat to radiate 2metres space and again regulators will say thats great for people at the 2m circumference but anyone touching the unit will sizzle their hand off touching it or the unit might produce a house fire. so again. design changes to dampen down things

if you think room heaters are just left to "cook" at max temp of the energy input efficiency. you are sadly mistaken.

oh and good quality material that can work efficiently to convert energy into heat without reaching extensive heat that can burn or ignite nearby objects, but these comes at a cost. so those making CHEAP heaters dont use those materials so more energy is required to heat up inefficient material.

"energy rating" appliances are not based on efficiency of thermo dynamics efficiency limits.. .. its based on a arbitrary amount lower then that.. deemed acceptable to regulators as "efficient" in regards to known materials manufacturers deem cheap/safe to be plausible to use for consumer goods, by which making those products wont risk a companies liability or risk

if you cant work out the common sense things of how real life products work in your home, or the manufacturing processes/decisions/regulations and consumer safety requirements of those real life proucts in your home. that all have set limits below your silly laws of thermo dynamics efficiency stat you think that all things work at max efficiency of..
then please, take some time to learn how things in your own home work

..
work it out, do some research
2 different wires of 2 different material.
both receiving 2kwh of power input and resisted at the end to then 'cook' the wires

do you think they both "cook" at the same time
do you think they both produce enough radiant heat to warm a room upto 100^oc
do you thing they both can survive for the same length of time

yep same power input.. but different result

give it a try. and realise that things are not as you seem to think they are