Post
Topic
Board Politics & Society
Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]
by
paxmao
on 01/10/2022, 22:40:21 UTC
...

So curiously, the long term effect is only the loss of a valuable infrastructure which damages the German investors in the project but not much more, that is why the retaliation hypothesis makes perfect sense. Also an infrastructure that is precisely in non-NATO territory.

Now, why would the US sabotage the pipeline?
- To fuck like you say his main ally in Europe? (stupid)
- To force Germany to be dependent of Ukraine (not impossible, but still fucking your allies).

The second one makes a 25% sense let's say, but the risk of an international backslash against US in case of being found clearly exceeds any veeeery long shot "advantage".

Bottomline, as it is now, it looks like international terrorism from Adolf Putin's Psychos and the Chief Orcs.


I know all who are commenting here have already picked their truths by virtue of pledging allegiance to one side or the other, but just in case someone is reading here that's truly just trying to make some sense out of this all:  
Let's cover leverage first. Surely we must all agree that the point of any sanction/limitation is to apply pressure in order to achieve desired results. By definition, both sides loose from sanctions/limitations, as if trade/agreement wasn't beneficial for both sides it wouldn't have happened in the first place. The big question with sanctions is who looses more! When you tell your kids that no one is going to the movies until they finish their vegetables, the point is that you incentivize them to eat their vegetables, of course you can easily achieve not going to the movies by blowing up your own car but that was never your goal in the first place!

Germany wants Russian gas, Russia want to get paid. Timing of gas payments are not critical to Russia at all (they don't care if they get paid in summer or winter), where timing of gas deliveries is extremely critical to Germany (that's why all gas pipeline maintenance is done during the summer months)! No one cares about gas usage this very day, German gas consumption in September is just above the minimal in August, and Germany has plenty in reserves to cover short term, so Russian doesn't have any leverage for this moment. The leverage comes in play at peaks during Dec-Mar. That's when Russian gas is of critical importance, social unrest and monetary pressures will be at their all time high. Any clown that tries to convince anyone that Russia blew up their own pipeline in September when demand is just starting to climb is just trying to make an imbeciles out of their listeners.



To address your point, whether intentionally or not, you're confusing the RU pumping in gas to fill German reserves that could be used later at critical time vs actually sending gas during that critical time! Just because Russia didn't want Germany to build up their reserves with RU gas during non-critical warmer months and turned off the gas, clearly doesn't mean that RU for some idiotic reason decided to remove any and all advantage it has for the coming most critical winter season where its leverage over Germany would've been at its peak!

Long term, there's absolutely no benefit to Russia to make German gas deliveries dependent on other EU states, think Germany can even consider Brexit? Gerxit? Gexit? when all their gas deliveries go though EU?

I mean Biden straight up spelled out that he'll stop the pipeline, member of the European parliament thanked USA in the post about blown pipeline, and now you try to question why US would do it?? US presidents public intentions are not good enough for you?

...


Mostly irrelevant, it does not matter when or how the reserves are used or filled. The fact is that RF shuts the valve and it matters little if the NS is operational or not in the short term and there are still several paths for the gas to fill the reserves if there was a political will, which is not the case.

There are several things in you post that are beyond reality (e.g. a Grexit), stating that the NS I & II are "Russia property",... I cannot even comment on those.

And now,

The RF is not acting in a rational manner as you or I would interpret it. Their prime objective is to act like they always act: twisting arms, threatening, intimidating and terrorising... having an international stance as "though" as Adolf Putin riding a horse half naked. They do not understand anything but retaliation and these attacks look to me like retaliation from miles away. Again, away from NATO territory, so it cannot be interpreted as an attack on a member country.

Again, the hypothesis of the US blowing up European infrastructures is pretty much senseless, as they already have Europe dependent on them for military and economic reasons and, if discovered, it would be such a radical change in relations for the worse that is simply not worth it.

Too many leaks in the pipeline of your "critical thinking".