Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on Today at 08:05:42 AM

Since the user is still insisting, wouldn't it be better to give him some evidence to his response, hoping you are 100% sure?
And if an account is caught on cheating then should you really confiscate the deposit or just let it return to the sender?
Do a full KYC, return the deposit and close the account. This will look much better than the steps you took right now.

This is a great discussion, so although we are no longer able to reply to the player, we will place some thoughts here.

We cannot provide direct evidence to the player. We have invested countless hours of labor and hundreds of thousands of dollars in tools to detect abusive multi-accounting. By showing these tools to the player, he will figure out a new way to beat them. We have seen this happen many times, based on information we have provided in forums or directly to players. In fact, he is doing that right now, by going to a forum to get his deposit back, because he has seen that this was the standard in the past.

We have already provided our evidence to a 3rd party mediator, who he has contacted. It is highly likely that after seeing our evidence, they will not waste their time with this case, but if they decide to take the case or need more information from us, we will cooperate and abide by their decision.

When a player is proven to be in violation of terms, we can certainly return the deposit to the first account, at which time they are warned that any additional accounts found will be seized. If we return the deposits to all the multiple accounts, then the user is putting us at risk, because they will likely have some accounts go undetected and receiving deposit back on all the rest. The only thing that can stop these groups is by letting them know that they are not welcome and will face penalties for their attempts to defraud us (yes, intentional multi-accounting is fraud, as they are lying about who they are).

Any legitimate player who is against these penalties, is not doing what is best for the industry. I think the problem here is that people do not realize the scope at which this occurs. These are not accounts which are playing fairly. They are accounts which have their own tools in place so that they cannot lose on sportsbooks. These tools include placing late bets, arbitrage, using valuebet or surebet bots, using forking scanners, corridor betting, match fixing and more. These are people who are banned by every fiat sportsbook, so they create accounts at the Bitcoin ones. For years they have been stealing millions of dollars from us and we have joined forces with other reputable sites, along with the sports providers to clean up the industry.

Within a week of adding additional sportsbooks to Playbetr, we had hundreds of new abusive accounts. These aren't individuals who happened upon us. This is a handful of professional abusers or syndicates, which create as many accounts as they can, to try and slip as many accounts by us as they can. Again, these are accounts that are using some sort of banned tool, so they cannot lose. In the case of this player, he had his funds returned on another account already. This is not his first account. It is also not his last account.

We would never accuse a player of multi-accounting or seize funds without 100% certainty of it. We have lost millions of dollars by paying out players who we weren't sure on at the time, but based on further investigation, we were able to determine it. In collaboration with other operators, sportsbook odds providers and security companies, we all continue to improve our skills, with a single goal in mind: To improve the sports betting industry. We operate with complete transparency and are not afraid of the extortion attempts of this and other players, who for so long have been using these forums to gain sympathy and get money.

Our reputation is stellar and we have never ignored an accusation. We provide more information than nearly any other site, because we believe transparency is the key to establishing trust, but we simply do not have the time to explain ourselves multiple times. We responded earlier to this accusation. The player leaving 10 additional comments afterwards does not require us to respond further. We told him he is welcome to seek 3rd party mediation. He did. And we provided our evidence. If nothing further occurs, then the mediator has made his decision.

We are growing rapidly and paying out far larger amounts than this all day long, often to players from this forum. Legitimate players are always paid. Thanks and best of luck to all!