Quote from: Inwestour on Today at 09:32:29 PM

Quote from: hZti on Today at 05:29:14 PM

There are many indicators that people use to tell you why bitcoin will go to an ATH soon. Still in reality it all comes down to supply and demand. There are constantly new people in crypto and if prices go down you can get more crypto for the same price. So at some point there is more money than bitcoin and prices will go up. We just have to be patient and wait.

Great example! I used to know one person who was engaged in MLM (multi level marketing), he did not always have good results, but he always blindly believed in success. Once I spoke to him and asked where you have so much strength and faith that you will succeed, and he answered me that new people always appear, every year young people graduate from schools, colleges, they look for work, dream and want to achieve something In this life. And if I can't build my structure with the people I'm talking to now, then I'll build it with new people in a few years.

I think that this can be applied to bitcoin too, every year more and more people learn about it, every year there will be more people who are willing to own any part of it and in the end we will only have to wait until the moment comes when its price is again will start to grow.

We likely need to keep in mind that frequently there can be a difference between items that might be highly marketed and items that actually have substance, so part of the ongoing battle with bitcoin seems to be that it has strong fundamentals and likely substance in terms of various aspects of its utility to have the ability of individuals to be self sovereign with their money and also likelihood to hold and increase in value in the long run - while at the same time, a lot of the bitcoin imitators rely heavily on marketing and the perception of value - contributing to confusion in a variety of ways - including that frequently very smart folks are likely getting behind pump and dump shitcoins (and vaporware) that sound good on paper but they frequently are not developed but instead meant to take advantage of people... which causes additional confusion regarding the extent to which bitcoin differs from the snake oil products.

In other words, networking effects do contribute to bitcoin's ongoing growth - but at the same time can be used by scam products to give the appearance of both growth and value.. when there may well not be any substance behind some of the products that appear to be adding value.

Quote from: albertorma on Today at 10:11:54 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 07:57:34 PM

Hm? Tell me more. You have been registered here almost as long as me, so there are a variety of ways that you could have been accumulating BTC in the past more than 7 years... Of course, I am not disagreeing in regards to the BTC price being at historical low levels, but how can we tell that it is a good time to buy.. also, there may be some of us who have been buying all the way down from $69k until now, and then what happens if we run out of money to buy more? Sure some folks have cash flow and some do not..

In fact, I am one of those guys, I don't have any "cash flow" because bitcoin is the only currency I use. Never had a work that paid out Fiat currency. Like the saying states, time in the market is more important than timing the market. I am not much into short time speculation/profits, for me bitcoin, at Its core, is a currency rather than an investment vehicle, in opposition to what the majority of the world thinks right now.

On a personal level, your situation does not seem to be very broadly applicable, and I have trouble figuring out what you mean exactly. I am not saying that your approach is not practical because it may well be very well suited to your situation.

However, the vast majority of folks either have some kind of a fiat cash flow or maybe they have an income in bitcoin and have to convert a decent amount of that to fiat, so there still well be some need to be some balance in terms of figuring out how much fiat to convert and whether to convert some of it in advance and also how much risk there might be if too much bitcoin is held on the balance sheet. If you are ongoingly experiencing an income in bitcoin that is excessive of any fiat expenses that you have, then yeah you are then in a position to just cash out as much as you need.. even though you might still be concerned about splurging when the BTC price is at high points rather than low points - so even after having had said all of that, it still seems that most of us who hold decent amounts of bitcoin are not going to completely escape from considering strategies that attempt to account for bitcoins volatility and even trying to plan around that.

There are also some people who might be born with considerable wealth cushions, and they learned enough financial skills that they are not putting themselves into financially vulnerable places, but still it seems that even if our own personal position might not be vulnerable to some of the greater bitcoin volatility swings, there still some need to attempt to describe our ways of managing BTC volatility in generally applicable ways.. and I can relate that sometimes I am also accused of lecturing bitcoin strategies to newbies (or to people who are in positions quite different from my own financial/psychological position).

Quote from: albertorma on Today at 10:11:54 PM

With this being said, I still decided to give my opinion,

Nothing wrong with that.. and it seems that a lot of us appreciate hearing from guys/gals who have different perspectives, especially if you have been involved with bitcoin for a while.. however, if you start to devolve into shitcoin talk, then that would be another story.

Quote from: albertorma on Today at 10:11:54 PM

as I am getting similar vibes to 2018 bear market and I feel, the market could have bottomed already. Shitcoiners are leaving, leveraged players are getting rekt, retailer lost trust, media is celebrating the bitcoin death, we are seeing miner fud for the third time in eight years, media still refuses to understand what a difficulty adjustment is... From my perspective, the reasons for the price drop are people just not understanding bitcoin yet.

It seems that I agree with every thing that you said there... except your point about shitcoiners are leaving. One of the BIGGEST of the smoke and mirror Ponzi Rube Goldberg machine shitcoins is Ethereum, and even if it might not suffer as BIG of a dramatic downfall as the FTX baloney, it is likely similar in terms of the magnitude of the value that is captured within that baloney pandering for influence project... that has been way more successful in terms of holding itself up than anyone with any appreciation for its various fakeness and its building on affinity would have expected.

I am not even suggesting that that scam is imminent in terms of its death, even though it seems to somewhat fly in the face of your assertion that "shticoiners are leaving" since that project has been holding its... 0.07-ish peg to bitcoin, and it is likely not even should be valued at 0.007-ish.. .. so that project could keep going many many more years.. perhaps? unless it is more iminent in dying than I can see... I thought it should have been dead several times in the last 6-7 years, and it keeps plugging along scamming people (while the people they are "scamming" make money - which seems contrary to definition) and even building more ways in which scams can be built on top of the foundational scam... Perhaps one of the greatest value that Eth and it's various imitators bring to the space is the ability to easily build more kinds of scams.

Quote from: albertorma on Today at 10:11:54 PM

I only focus on fundamentals, no matter what. And the truth is, to date, bitcoin is the purest form of money. Decentralized money ideas exist from 80s (crypto anarchist manifesto) and ideas cannot be destroyed, only improved. It is certain that eventually the idea of decentralized money will succeed and give us back the power governments and bankers have stolen from us, with bitcoin having the highest chance to lead this revolution. The "industry" being full of shit, does not invalidate any of the good things we already have.

Fair enough.. No contention with you there.. except maybe just to qualify that I am not going to necessarily presume that progress is perpetually upwards.. so even if there are various aspects in which progress is being made.. and surely bitcoin was a phenomenal break through, there are still new ways in which status quo incumbents are battling in ways that cause a lot of difficulties.. and yeah, maybe in the very long run justice and bitcoin (or something close to bitcoin) will prevail, but I am not even going to presume that the ability to further manipulate down is over.... .. and yeah,.. there is no need to necessarily get into gloomy scenarios, to be able to recognize that bitcoin remains very powerful, even when a lot of ammunition is thrown at it.. and even with a lot of the ways that there have been attempts to fuck with it in similar ways that that fuckery happens with traditional asset classes, and some of those folks are getting their asses handed to them.. when it is found out that they do not have the bitcoin.. and surely some of the bad actors in FTX, Terra/Luna, 3AC, Celsius, Voyager, Blockfi, and some others (and still some who are unknown) were able to escape with more bitcoin than they deserved.. at least so far it seems that some of the bad actors have the bitcoin (or maybe if they transferred value into other asset classes that they are able to keep to themselves unjustly).

Quote from: albertorma on Today at 10:11:54 PM

In conclusion, having in consideration the fundamentals, and the USD situation getting worse and worse every year, with bitcoin being at 16k ish and the whales buying all the way down, I think allocating a percentage of your portfolio to bitcoin is a responsible and smart thing to do. Despite what recent price action tell us, bitcoin is a great hedge, because It will continue to exist forever, unlike the USD. I highly doubt It will continue on going down. Can't be certain as markets are irrational, but whatever happens, I want to be part of this.

Hahahaha.. You are like preaching to the choir there.

P.S. By the way, I did a quickie look at your post history, just to see if there might have been some reason that I had not previously noticed any of your posts (not that I can remember), and surely the post you just made is probably close to one of your best posts, if not your best post... ... In other words, you have quite a few shitty posts in your post history,...... hahahaha.. no problem.. You can do whatever you like..I just thought that I would mention that I did a quickie look.. because I just wanted to see if I might have missed something.. You know sometimes a brand new member comes onto the scene.... and then I see some of his/her posts, and I am like: " '¿holy shit?' where did this person come from? How did s/he get to be so smart?" hahahahahaha.. I could mention some names.. but I really don't like to do that.. except to just mention that those kinds of things sometimes have happened to me, for what it's worth?.. .. .