Quote from: TwitchySeal on December 21, 2022, 06:00:06 AM

Did you hear Putin fell down the stairs and pooped his pants?

Don't believe any rumors, it was Biden.

Quote from: suchmoon on December 22, 2022, 04:44:49 AM

I don't. And - as usual with whataboutism deflection - you failed to indicate whether those two things are supposed to be positive or negative.

If you say you don't, then it's true. Let me think though... Nah, this is nonsense. You do it. And your thesis about "whataboutism" is your subjective assessment. For you, everything that is printed in the American media like CNN or AP about the Ukrainian conflict is true. A little bit of a journalistic "investigation" has appeared against the Russian troops and you are ready to swallow everything that American propaganda offers you. Moreover, you are ready to defend it as the ultimate truth. You dont even question their articles, if they were published in the American media, then its true. You consume information in such a way and your perception is so tuned.

Quote from: suchmoon on December 22, 2022, 04:44:49 AM

No, I'd say I have a pretty good understanding. Here is a quick recap if you need help: your genocidal dictator invaded Ukraine.

Judging by what you just wrote, you are generally far from any understanding.
You have been told more than once in this thread that at the beginning of 2014, the Kyiv junta carried out an anti-constitutional coup against the legitimate Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, when 1 million rebels in Kyiv decided the fate of 35 million people throughout Ukraine, without any vote. If you don't know, that's not how democracies behave. Do you remember what in the United States calls the rioters who disagreed with the results of the voting in favor of Biden and who entered the Capitol on January 6, 2021? They are called "domestic terrorists". But in relation to Ukraine, Western propaganda called the rebels "democracy fighters", because it is beneficial for the United States to set fire to the underbelly of Russia and weaken it economically. The goal is to keep this area in a constant zone of tension. Do you think that Russia needs this most of all - to have hostilities right next to its border? Think about who is benefiting the most financially from the fact that Russia doesn't trade with the European Union.
For several years, a gang lured by the United States (and personally by Joe Biden), called the "Kiev government" refused to comply with the UN resolution in the form of the Minsk Agreements, according to which the regions of Donbass (DPR and LPR) would remain part of Ukraine, but with a special status. Instead of solving everything peacefully, the Ukrainian junta, on the contrary, has been arming itself to the teeth all this time, building fortifications in the Donbass and bombing the Russian-speaking population there. Sponsors from US and NATO helped junta in this.

Code:

From 2014, when Russia first invaded Ukraine,
through November 23, 2022, the United States has provided
approximately $21.8 billion in security assistance "to help
Ukraine preserve its territorial integrity, secure its borders,
and improve interoperability with NATO".

Source: US Congress

The ex-president of Ukraine Poroshenko and ex-Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel admitted that the Minsk agreements were a temporary respite for Ukraine. Zelensky has said that he is not satisfied with the way the Minsk agreements are drawn up. Moreover, on February 19, 2022, Zelensky began to talk about the rejection of the Budapest Memorandum, which means Ukraine's nuclear armament. Imagine nuclear weapons in a country whose armed forces officially include recognized Nazis from Azov.
When the heads of the DPR and LPR asked Zelensky on February 22, 2022 to withdraw troops from the Donbass, he refused to listen to them, sarcastically asking "Who is this?". During the 2019 presidential election in Ukraine, Zelensky promised to end the war in Ukraine. But then his plans changed and now he cuts Ukrainian soldiers into minced meat, cashing in on the deaths of ordinary Ukrainians with his wife and his inner circle.
This gave Putin a pretext to attack in February 2022 in accordance with Article 51 of the UN Charter, Chapter 7.
Also, in early October 2022, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said a phrase that I would like to verify with the help of independent qualified international lawyers. On October 4, 2022, referring to the UN Charter and the declaration of the General Assembly, Lavrov said the following: "Everyone must respect the territorial integrity of those states that have governments that recognize the right to self-determination and represent all the people living in the territory of a particular country. Zelensky's regime, and even more so Poroshenko's, didn't meet these criteria".

Quote from: suchmoon on December 22, 2022, 04:44:49 AM

There was never any proof beyond speculation of Ukrainians having that many, let alone any proof of Russians destroying that many.

You were given a link to a completely official Ukrainian site, where they named the approximate number of bayraktars from 60 to 96. Everything else is guesswork. For some reason, you don't ask yourself that bayraktars have practically ceased to be talked about in the media. With a high degree of probability this means that they have all been destroyed (from 60 to 96), otherwise what's the point for the Armed Forces of Ukraine not to use them? In any case, only the General Staff of Ukraine knows the truth, how many bayraktars were in total and how many of them were lost. Shares such information, including on the HIMARS and aircrafts, during the hostilities no one will ever. Therefore, your conversations are at the level of faith. You also cannot refute the words of the Russian general Konashenkov, because you don't have the appropriate level of knowledge for this. What real evidence do you have that Konashenkov is lying, apart from your guesses?

Quote from: suchmoon on December 22, 2022, 04:44:49 AM

Do you really think The Sun can start a world war?

Do you feel the difference between "starting a war" and "providing information support to escalate the conflict"? The American press works more effectively on you than the British. You seem to really underestimate the power of media influence, you don't even feel like you yourself fell on their hook. Because you are ready to tear Putin with your teeth after their articles. In your opinion, tabloids don't influence politics. Although this is not the case, judging by how many Britons are ready not only to send financial assistance to the Armed Forces of Ukraine and freeze in cold dwellings so that the Ukrainian soldiers fight against Putin's troops, but even go to fight as mercenaries in Ukraine. Western propaganda also went through the local users in such a way that now they put in their signatures the slogans that the Nazi Ukrainian formations shouted in the 40s of the 20th century, and call Russian subhumans.

Quote from: suchmoon on December 22, 2022, 04:44:49 AM

Damn, you still think Zelensky as a person and/or his "regime" is what's important in this war. Here's the thing. Putin gives an order to retreat - war ends. Or if he croaks - there's a good chance war ends too. Zelensky does that - war most likely doesn't end. Take a minute to think about that.

Zelensky is a tool in the hands of American and British manipulators.
It seems to you that the war can simply be ended with the withdrawal of Russian troops. For the Kremlin, any departure from the initial plan of demilitarization, denazification and Ukraine's neutral/non-bloc status will be considered an unconditional military defeat for Russia and is at great risk of triggering a coup d'état in Russia. The Kiev government is ready to fight until Russia returns the Donbass and Crimea, and the Zelensky government also wants to demand reparations 600 billion euro and a military tribunal for Russia. Remind me how much the US and NATO countries paid Iraq, Syria, Libya and other countries to rebuild? I have to disappoint you, but Kremlin officials would rather destroy the whole of Europe together with Ukraine in a nuclear fire than go for it, or they will all be destroyed by radical Russian citizens who have been told for years about the genocide of people in the Donbass and about Crimea liberated from the Nazis. Too much is at stake in this conflict, and it's not about Ukraine at all, but about NATO's ambitions, which understand only the language of force. And there is no need to start tales here that NATO is a defensive alliance, these "defenders" have already killed millions of people for the sake of their goals. The forces of the alliance are stopped only by the presence of nuclear weapons in Russia, otherwise the smoldering coals would have long been left in the place of the Kremlin.
For some reason, many in the West think that everything in this conflict is tied to Putin. Of course, I don't know the inner workings of the Kremlin, but judging by the Telegram posts of the former Russian President Medvedev (who 3 days ago met with the leader of China), Putin is generally a dove of peace against his background, and if such a repulsed hawk as Medvedev comes, then a total war can quickly flare up. If it seems to someone that Medvedev is nothing from a military point of view, then I hasten to remind you that in 2008 (08.08.08), under Medvedev, they dealt with the Georgian army in five days, which attacked the territory of South Ossetia.

Quote from: suchmoon on December 22, 2022, 04:44:49 AM

Oryx collects photo or video proof and goes to painstaking lengths to verify/deduplicate/identify the equipment. As far as sources go, it's one of the best. It's quite telling that you try to discredit it based on who posted the link.

Do they (Oryx) also always "tell the truth" like the American press? Let's see what they write about Oryx on Wikipedia:

Code:

Oryx, or Oryxspioenkop is a Dutch open-source intelligence (OSINT) defence analysis website,
and warfare research group. It is run by Stijn Mitzer and Joost Oliemans. Both have previously worked
for Netherlands-based Bellingcat. Oliemans also worked for Janes Information Services, a British
open-source military intelligence company.

^ One of Oryx worked with a British military intelligence company. Do you even know that the British military are among the most active supporters of Ukraine and are never a neutral side in this conflict? Also, the authors are former employees of Bellingcat. Now let's see what opinion other information resources have about this organization:

Code:

[2016-10-22 17:53:09] <WikiLeaks> Bellingcat is part funded by the UK MoD and is UKUSA aligned.

Source: archive of American investigative reporter Emma Best