Quote from: maanmieli on Today at 03:08:21 PM

Quote from: BADecker on December 11, 2022, 02:26:01 AM

The question I would ask is, if a man and a woman voluntarily get together and have children, how is it that the government can require the children to go to school where the teacher (from a different thread) might teach them all kinds of stuff that the parents don't agree with? After all, nobody other than the parents (except for God) had a hand in making the children. So, why are the children not more like their property than simply children?

Cool

I think calling the children the parents' property puts parents at the same level as the government, both fighting to be the rightful owner. Ironically, this is what makes the parents themselves disagree regarding their offspring, to the point of divorce and custody litigation.

If you study families and human history, you realise Mother and Father represent the interests of their own parents and lineage, which has little to do with individual interest in a libertarian sense. This is why in-laws are annoying and why we have political left and right.

Parents ARE government over their children.

The parents didn't fight each other when making the children. They did it by mutual agreement, even though they might not have been expecting or hoping for a child. HOWEVER, if the parents aren't the owner, why should the government be? Government didn't have any hand in the actual creation of the children, but the parents did. If we leave the children without a government, they will die in a few days after being born.

It's like you. You own some canvas and brushes and paint. They are your property. You paint a picture. Isn't the picture your property, as well? Or does the government own you and your painting property, and they can own your painting because of this?

There are all kinds of things that go on around a family... politics and otherwise. It doesn't have anything to do with ownership of the children except if the parents give up the ownership. People/parents don't always agree with THEIR parents and extended family.

Quote from: maanmieli on Today at 03:25:16 PM

Let me edit what BADecker wrote, for illustration purposes:

Quote from: BADecker on December 11, 2022, 05:11:07 PM

So, let's say that you have a God. How did that God get to be your God? Several possible ways:
1. It was your parents' God, and when you became an adult, you simply kept it as your God out of habit;
2. You selected it as your God for whatever reason. So, it was by agreement, even if that agreement was only with yourself;
3. You were forced by your parents to accept a God... like a hostage situation, where your captors tell you to obey or die.

There are possibly other ways that a God became your God. But in every case, it was by your own choice.

So, this is what I mean by the relationship between family, God and government. If we rage against any of those things, we are essentially having an argument with our family of origin, and this argument continues when we have children.

Well, actually, you are wrong. God became the God of everyone by HIS choice. Just because they don't acknowledge Him, doesn't mean that they are suddenly outside of Him and His authority. And they really don't want to be, because they couldn't hold themselves alive outside of His power and authority. It is God Who is holding us all alive all the time. God, out of love for His creatures, maintains them even though they are against Him, or totally ignore Him.

Cool