Quote from: montaga on Today at 04:19:18 AM

Head of Ukraine intelligence, Kyrylo Budanov death
Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, Valerii Zaluzhnyi, deserted to a foreign country

As usual, another fake new. It has been a rumour that was easy to take

Quote from: cabron on June 16, 2023, 03:42:11 PM

Quote from: be.open on June 16, 2023, 03:18:20 PM

Quote from: paxmao on June 16, 2023, 02:27:55 PM

Nice tale. It is much more unprofitable to finish the conflict without a victory. US not liking war loosers when paying big tax for having the biggest and possibly the best military at least in terms of capability.

But there is a clear risk of the Republicans wanting to false-end this conflict a then having to pay again the price of a cold war during the next decade. It would be pretty much in the line of the international gaffes of Trump (like fucking the pacific trade agreement, fucking the Iran non-proliferation deal, leaving top-secrets in the hallway...). But de Santis or others are unlikely to know much better either.

However, if they make the White House, they would have access to the information and perhaps see things differently, who knows. IMO Trump is pretty much a Russian agent.

Tnx. Biden is no stranger to humiliating military defeats. Let me remind you that his presidency began with a crushing fiasco in Afghanistan, and he came to power precisely on promises to withdraw troops from there and end the conflict. Although the Doha peace agreement with the Taliban was signed by Trump, who also wanted to play this card in his election campaign. Thus, both candidates in their election campaign sought to use the powerful trump card of a peaceful settlement of the protracted Afghan conflict, which they inherited from the Obama administration. I think the topic of a peaceful settlement of the Ukrainian conflict will also become a similar trump card in the 2024 election campaign for both Trump and Biden, and it doesn’t matter who plans to participate in this political show. Society loves victory and dislikes defeat, but even more society does not like protracted military conflicts with murky goals at the expense of taxpayers.

I think even after the crushing victory of Russia, the media in the USA will convincingly explain to ordinary Americans why this is a victory, not a defeat - some Russians (from Russia) killed other Russians (from Ukraine) and this is a good waste of American money. And damn it's hard to argue with that, given that most ordinary Americans can't seem to find Ukraine on the world map. Grin

Right now the media still proclaim Ukraine is winning and then countries like South Korea flash all the news on their local media praising Zelensky and appreciating Olaf Scholz.
You really can see who in this world promotes war and not peace when they could just ask Ukraine to negotiate and stop the war. I doubt Putin will even attack Ukraine in the first place if they are just listening to its demand to not extend NATO.

For the West, this is just another war like Afghanistan and Iraq or but for Russia, this is an existential threat that they could end up like Afghanistan if NATO surrounds them.

"Western media" does not exist. I know you are confused because you are used to have one version of the story, but different news outlets speak differently of the current status. I have seen prominent politicians and retired generals speaking with the voice of Sauron (Putin) to the point that seem bought.

As far as I am concerned:

- All RF trolls in youtube, forums, telegrams are trying to undermine the morale of the Ukrainian army by saying that the battles cost many lives, that all tanks are being destroyed and that it is suicidal to fight... And who would expect anything different? That is your job guys tight?

- Zelensky is not claiming nor promising a quick win. Ukraine knows that they are up to entrenched positions. The fact that they are fighting tells me that they still believe the situation can turn in their favour, either completely or at least to better it.

- US and Co. have proper intel on Ukraine, they know what is happening on the terrain. UK and US are still sending vehicles, munitions, support, training... The fact that they are still training pilots, about to provide f-16, etc. tells me that they believe Ukraine can improve the situation fighting instead of negotiating.

- The territorial gains of the offensive are being dismissed and watered down by the same people who considered 50 meters a day in Bakhmut with 500 dead a good day.

The only thing I can agree on is that the stakes are high. But you are wrong to assume that Europe is not existentially threatened by the RF now that they have decided to "solve things" militarily. Is not just "another war", it is a war in Europe.

What I think is happening is that you have a real wat now. A high-intensity fight only seen before in WW II and some stages of WW I, with lots of equipment used and lots of troops involved. It is too early to call success or failure, as most of the troops have not yet been committed by both sides. I do give credit to rumours that say that RF has reserves, but also Ukraine has kept most of the best tanks and equipment uncommitted yet. Bradleys? They are there by the 1000s... cheap and basic, like Maxxes.