Quote from: ginsan on June 17, 2023, 01:51:48 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 17, 2023, 03:17:05 AM

[edited out]

Sorry to explain off topic. Several times i have held more than 5 btc at the same time i sold it and at the same time i did not hold it long term. And only this time I realized that the decision to sell in the past was the worst decision I had ever made. Maybe it's a bit stupid but that's my experience and I learned to go back to accumulate with DCA since I visited this thread and don't plan to sell again because I've learned from many mistakes that I've done in the past.

Indeed, that's what I said, I just started and hope for a lot of positive support, be it financially or otherwise, because it can make me more enthusiastic about doing the DCA strategy every week.

Thanks for the clarification.. and I doubt that you are completely off topic, especially since you had been saying that your strategy was to attempt to employ DCA in a kind of hybrid way.. which is buying BTC on dips... and you are also striving to mostly buy BTC and to ween yourself from the temptations of selling BTC during your accumulation phase and while you have some BTC accumulation levels in mind that you would like to achieve.

As I had mentioned, getting to 1 BTC over the past 7 years would have taken about $10 per week invested into BTC, and getting to 5 BTC would have therefore needed $50 per week - and so we can ONLY go from where we are at currently, and even in 2016 and many times thereafter, there were a lot of uncertainties in bitcoin, and a lot of folks sold bitcoin at various times that were too many BTC sold and too soon - and furthermore, they likely were both failing to acknowledge and appreciate bitcoin for what it really is and they were valuing their wealth in bitcoin and therefore misguided by needs to "lock-in fiat profits" which comes to bite them in the ass later on when they have way fewer bitcoin than they previously had and what they could have had, and they realize that they might not even be able to get to that previous level of BTC accumulation because they sold too many BTC too soon.

The fact of the matter with any of us is that we can ONLY attempt to figure out our BTC accumulation strategy from right now, and not from what we could have done and/or what we should have done in the past.

We are never going to really know whether we are correct in terms of Bitcoin's long term investment thesis or that it is going to continue to go up in value with the passage of time, but we can continue to attempt to make a bet that bitcoin seems to be amongst the best of asymmetric bets to the upside, and it might even be the best asymmetric bet to the upside, but it is surely not guaranteed to be.

Perhaps another one of the problems that people have in their investing into bitcoin strategies is that they over invest, and when the BTC price goes shooting up, they get nervous - especially when it comes shooting back down, so likely a more conservative (but still potentially aggressive) DCA strategy can work, and there can be ways to be more aggressive with both buying on dips and also with lump sum investing, while at the same time likely recognizing that it is likely not a good practice to sell with the purpose of buying more BTC at a lower price, and if you do sell BTC make sure that you ONLY sell when the BTC price is going up and that you sell a low enough amount that you are not going to be bothered if the BTC price ever goes down.

Part of the problems that people seem to have when they start to sell BTC on the way up is that they may well have not even accumulated enough BTC to actually be within a status that they really are prepared financially psychologically to sell the BTC that they have sold and to say forget about it, if the price never comes back down below the selling price. Another thing is that if they knkow tha they are still in BTC accumulation mode then there can be questions regarding continuing to buy when the BTC price is going up or to pause buying in order to buy more when the price is going down or when the BTC price is flat... These are not easy dilemmas to resolve, and each of us has to figure out how to manage our own BTC accumulation strategies so that we are not causing situations in which we are not accumulating enough BTC and/or we have failed to actually sufficiently and adequately think through various upside and downside scenarios in order that we can attempt to follow somewhat of a preplanned strategy that allows us to recognize our goal of stacking sats and just persistently strive to make advancements in that direction, even if we might be making mistakes along the way too.. The longer that we are in bitcoin, then the more likely that many of us are making several mistakes along the way..

Hopefully, this time you are able to stay somewhat steadfast and focused on BTC as the prize and continue to persistently accumulate, even if sometimes the accumulation levels might be low and maybe even sometimes you are not able to accumulate until your cashflow returns to a higher level, and many of us likely face those kinds of problems too.. including that I frequently find myself going to shop (in a variety of different places, different cities and different types of goods (well food is a kind of basic) - and even in different countries), and it is fucking crazy regarding how much people are willing to pay for certain items that are available to them - and sure there can be neighborhood and city variance, but even going to different places it is still surprising to see how assertions of inflation are likely describing abilities to pay that seem like 20% or 50%, perhaps, but there are so many goods and services that seem to solidly increasing in price in the neighborhood of double or more... and even if they don't get you in one way, they get you in another way in terms of various charges for goods and services.. even some of the basics... salaries are not likely keeping up.. and many of us hope that at some point bitcoin will help to save us from some of the outrageousness in terms of prices of goods and services in fiat prices.

Quote from: Frankolala on June 17, 2023, 03:04:45 PM

This thread has really helped a lot of us to understand bitcoin bitcoin is all about hodli and accumulating in your capacity,so that you might able to reach that fuck you status someday. DCA strategy is a good one.

Of course, having goals to reach fuck you status can be a real good thing, and it may well be possible for everyone to have that kind of a goal, but we also have to realize aspects of the reality that some folks might have very low levels of discretionary income, so they might not be able to put a lot into BTC, so for those guys they have to continue to realize that even if they do not reach fuck you status with their BTC investment, they are still likely going to be better off in 10 years to 20 years to 30 years.. as long as they continue to accumulate BTC (even if relatively small amounts) and do not get tricked out of their BTC or get tricked out of their BTC accumulation strategies with false presumptions that they will be able to accumulate BTC through selling BTC. which seems like it makes sense in theory.. but like you said Frankolala, attempting to accumulate BTC by selling BTC is very BIG gambling strategy without very good odds of actually beating a strategy that mostly focuses on BTC accumulation through various forms of buying it regularly, persistently and perhaps aggressively, without being overly aggressive in such a way that you are going to have to end up selling your BTC because you failed/refused to sufficiently/adequately plan your expenses, including your emergency expenses..

TLDR: Bitcoin likely gives more options, whether you actually reach fuck you status or not, especially if your investment timeline is 4-10 years or even much longer.

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on June 17, 2023, 03:54:08 PM

Quote from: ginsan on June 17, 2023, 01:51:48 PM

Sorry to explain off topic. Several times i have held more than 5 btc at the same time i sold it and at the same time i did not hold it long term. And only this time I realized that the decision to sell in the past was the worst decision I had ever made. Maybe it's a bit stupid but that's my experience and I learned to go back to accumulate with DCA since I visited this thread and don't plan to sell again because I've learned from many mistakes that I've done in the past.

Indeed, that's what I said, I just started and hope for a lot of positive support, be it financially or otherwise, because it can make me more enthusiastic about doing the DCA strategy every week.

If you have a clear reason why you should sell your bitcoins in the past, then I don't think it's a bad decision.
There are many reasons to sell bitcoin holdings and one of them is when you feel you need the money urgently. Your health and anything other like building a business are some of the reasons to sell bitcoin, but if you have better options then holding and seeking a solution such as a loan is fine too.

I think that each of us needs to consider ways in which we can avoid selling any bitcoin at a time that is not of our own choosing, and sure maybe there might be times in which we might need to shave off some BTC from our BTC holdings in order to make ends meet, but we should also be trying to plan our expenses (even emergency expenses) in such ways that we are able to draw from other funds rather than ONLY having BTC available to us for such emergency funds.. so likely if we end up having to draw too much into our BTC, then we likely have not structured our finances very well.. and we likely overinvested into BTC rather than making sure that we had our shit together, including sufficient and adequate levels of emergency funding sources for when shit hits the fan.. and shit always hits the fan, and it feels much better to be able to deal with it without having to sell much if any of our BTC.

I could also provide some personal examples of this, but hopefully, you get the point that I am making... which is don't be investing into bitcoin with money that you might need in the near future.. or even in 4-10 years or longer.. you have to attempt to structure your finances and your psychology in such a way that you are not tempted to sell much if any of your BTC except under conditions that you have personally already pre-established, such as once you are already at or near fuck you status or some other set of conditions that you might already understand to be within you BTC portfolio (and investment portfolio) management plans that might even allow you to sell some BTC on the way up in order to help you to better buttress you abilities to be able to better withstand long and hard BTC draw downs, if such long and hard BTC draw downs were to occur.

Quote from: lizarder on June 17, 2023, 06:01:32 PM

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on June 17, 2023, 03:54:08 PM

If you have a clear reason why you should sell your bitcoins in the past, then I don't think it's a bad decision.
There are many reasons to sell bitcoin holdings and one of them is when you feel you need the money urgently. Your health and anything other like building a business are some of the reasons to sell bitcoin, but if you have better options then holding and seeking a solution such as a loan is fine too.

Bitcoin's priority scale is not more valuable when you experience health problems, selling Bitcoin for health costs is not too bad for me and even if you sell Bitcoin as a business support is far more productive because when the business is developing you can buy bitcoin with a much bigger amount. But there are other ways that can be taken, namely making financial scale to meet other needs, such as health, children's education costs and costs for businesses that have been prepared.

Sometimes the conditions for the need for money are not in the right conditions where the price of bitcoin has decreased, so selling the bitcoins that we have at that time will make a loss. Preparing needs that are used through savings is also needed as an option when we need money suddenly and don't need to sell bitcoin when facing conditions like that.

There are not really any problems to diversify out of some of your BTC in planned kinds of ways; however, at the same time, there are likely going to be needs to assess the extent to which BTC needs to be used for the various kinds of investments that you perceive to be important to your life or to persons within your circle. There surely could be cases in which selling some BTC on the way up would be justified and also justified in such a way to diversify some of your investments out of BTC - especially also when your BTC holdings might have appreciated to very high percentages in terms of your overall investments that you hold.. and for those kinds of reasons, you perceive it to be better to draw from you BTC rather than drawing from other assets or income sources or credit that you might have available to you.

Quote from: ginsan on June 17, 2023, 06:56:09 PM

Quote from: Frankolala on June 17, 2023, 03:04:45 PM

Ginsan take for instance that the price you sold those 5BTC of yours and compare it to assuming you left it to this very time,how much your bitcoin portfolio will worth.

I don't remember anymore even it was buried not to see it. I think it's taboo to remember.

It may or may not be necessary for you to figure out various exact particulars of your history - unless you might consider that there might be some lessons for you to figure out how to avoid (or lessen the likelihood or impact of) some of the specific ways that you might have made mistakes.

But probably it is more important for you to make various plans in regards to future scenarios rather than looking backwards into particulars of mistakes that you likely already identified and likely are going to be correcting.

Of course, sometimes when you are attempting to figure out ways to proceed going forward, there might be some aspects in which you might figure out that you have certain inclinations, and you might want to consider some of your behaviors from the past when you are building some of your forward going plans.. and also you might realize that you may well be better off to have a larger fiat reserve level so that you are able to buy on dips or not to panic when the BTC price is going down and does not seem like it is ever going to stop going down... we all likely feel those kinds of discomforts when we see the BTC price correcting more than 50% or more than 70% and even sometimes greater correction levels than that...and then staying down for longer than we expect too. and with additional corrections when we had been tentatively considering that the bottom must be in or close to being in, and then it is not in.