Quote from: Wiwo on June 29, 2023, 10:27:20 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 29, 2023, 07:04:22 PM

Quote from: lizarder on June 29, 2023, 06:14:57 PM

Forget about risk and when people walk according to the right process, then bitcoin is never a risk to invest. Price fluctuations are just a process of travel and we can avoid when setting long-term investment patterns and that makes everything riskier because someone comes to investing because they don't have knowledge. There are stages that we need to go through to make the investment bigger, the ways and strategies for each person may be different, but in essence, all of us make investments to make a profit, the size of the profit depends on the capital and how much bitcoin assets we have.

It seems that I agree with everything in your post, lizarder.. except I am a wee bit confused by the points that you seem to be making at the beginning of this responsive paragraph.. and you seem to be suggesting that bitcoin does not have any risk so long as you allocate in such a way that is by your own situation - but still, I am bothered by the idea that bitcoin would not be a risk - even though I agree with the overall idea that the level of risk is largely a matter of allocation levels...

JayJuanGee you are right because even though the risk level is dependent on the allocation level and personal risk assessment, that doesn't override the general risk that is available with bitcoin holding and since bitcoin can react in whatever direction it then means that bitcoin is naturally a high-risk investment and holding bitcoin for the long term or short term depending I the holder frame of mind and decision to should all be done having the risk in mind.

High volatility does not automatically mean high risk.

In my comment to lizarder, I was likely quibbling in regards to his use of absolute terms in regards to suggesting that in the long term bitcoin does not have risk, so I was presenting some scenarios in which bitcoin spiraling downward would constitute risks that could happen, even if it is a low probability of such spiraling to zero to happen, but it is not a zero probability as lizarder's comment would have suggested.

Accordingly, I largely agree with lizarder's point that bitcoin is likely on an upward trajectory in the long term, and also your assertion that bitcoin is going to continue to be quite highly volatile along the way, but I would not conclude that bitcoin is "high risk" - because any of us should be able to off-set our own level of risk by position size and also tailing our accumulation and holding of BTC to our own personal circumstances. In other words, we could contribute towards bitcoin becoming high risk in the way that we structure our buys, especially if we fail/refuse to sufficiently/adequately account for bitcoin's seemingly inevitable ongoing high volatility.

There are a lot of people who likely perceive bitcoin to be high risk due to its high volatility, but they also deem bitcoin to be high risk because they either do not know what it is and/or they believe the bullshit misinformation that is propagated about it.

Quote from: Wiwo on June 29, 2023, 10:27:20 PM

In some cases, bitcoin is a none guaranteed investment and the success level of each bitcoin holder is depending on the individual approach to the general concept of bitcoin, and how the holder decides to take profits or loses along the line without necessarily getting excited from the market in entirety.

I agree with you here.

Quote from: Inwestour on Today at 09:28:02 AM

Quote from: Wiwo on June 29, 2023, 10:27:20 PM

JayJuanGee you are right because even though the risk level is dependent on the allocation level and personal risk assessment, that doesn't override the general risk that is available with bitcoin holding and since bitcoin can react in whatever direction it then means that bitcoin is naturally a high-risk investment and holding bitcoin for the long term or short term depending I the holder frame of mind and decision to should all be done having the risk in mind.

In some cases, bitcoin is a none guaranteed investment and the success level of each bitcoin holder is depending on the individual approach to the general concept of bitcoin, and how the holder decides to take profits or loses along the line without necessarily getting excited from the market in entirety.

At the moment, for all long-term investors, bitcoin has been a profitable investment, when I say long-term, I mean a period of 5-10 years. In the last cycle, the price has risen very well and those who bought 50k or more are now in losses, and they can lose money if they sell now, but they can also hold further and eventually get into profit in a new bull market. But the importance of the right time to buy is difficult to overestimate, this applies to any investment, you can’t buy on ATH and count on profit.

I tend to NOT like the examples of the guy who bought at or near all time high, and then just sits on his hands for a number of years, even though I understand the point that you are making Inwestour, which is that even those BTC purchases that were made at or near all time high have decently good chances of becoming profitable in the coming 5-10 years.. and perhaps (likely I would suggest) they will even be profitable in light of the likely ongoing decreasing value of the dollar (or whatever other fiat currency that you might be using as your measurement).

Another consideration is that if someone had started buying BTC with a DCA approach at or near the ATH in mid-November 2021, then that person would still be in profits right now. For example someone buying $100 per week starting from mid-November 2021 have spent a total of $8,500, and s/he would have 0.3352 BTC - which would have a current market spot price value of $10,125 (based on a current BTC price of $30k), and the longer that the person has been in bitcoin, then the more likely that the amount of profits would be higher. Of course, no guarantees in regards to how the long to medium term is going to play out, but there is a lot of value that seems to come from consistently buying BTC, even if there might be some lump sum investing and buying on dips that complement a DCA approach that focuses on ongoing accumulation over the long term. and perhaps even some moderation in the BTC buying approach in order to NOT overly extend yourself in regards to continuing to want to account for your own expenses, including potential emergency expenses.. which everyone likely has from time to time.